The Trident debate.

[Bill Plant]

Do you get laughed at a lot when you talk in public? Even if they are a "spent force", how do you know they wont ever sort themselves out?

 

Why do you think the West lets Russia do what it wants?

 

The west lets Russia do what it wants for now because they have oil and gas and a large army that could be a handful for its neighbours. It cant hope to ever match the States or even a combined Europe. America could and would wipe putin off the map[ and still have plenty left for China. Putin is on borrowed time and he knows it. Its a pity you dont.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:02 ----------

 

They are probably counting on the US having to shoulder all defence responsibilities accompanied by a slogan "Why send one of our lads when we can always send a Yank instead"

 

Hey. We have shed our share of blood in illegal and imoral wars too you know. America dosent have that monopoly.

[charmer]

The west lets Russia do what it wants for now because they have oil and gas and a large army that could be a handful for its neighbours. It cant hope to ever match the States or even a combined Europe. America could and would wipe putin off the map[ and still have plenty left for China. Putin is on borrowed time and he knows it. Its a pity you dont.

 

So despite the fact it spend more money on it's military than all but China and the US, you still consider Russia to be "not threat"?

 

Global firepower (as US organisation) believe Russia to have the 2nd strongest military in the world (we are 5th). Enlighten us as to why you believe they are wrong and why you think that Russia will never recover from this weakness that only you can see.

[tzijlstra]

The NHS needs 8 billion a year, cancelling Trident renewal will cover most of that.

 

Nuclear weapons are a thing of the past, if we fire one, Russia will fire one and so the nuclear apocalypse will rid the world of its main pest, mankind.

[charmer]

The NHS needs 8 billion a year, cancelling Trident renewal will cover most of that.

 

Nuclear weapons are a thing of the past, if we fire one, Russia will fire one and so the nuclear apocalypse will rid the world of its main pest, mankind.

 

Do you not hold much faith in the deterrent effect then?

[Bill Plant]

So despite the fact it spend more money on it's military than all but China and the US, you still consider Russia to be "not threat"?

 

.

 

They arent any threat. Most of their stuff is out dated. Their troops are demoralised, they are under equipped. It may spend more but what it spends still isnt enough to claw back to anything like the level the yanks are on. Obama considers them a regional power, that should tell you something.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:31 ----------

 

The NHS needs 8 billion a year, cancelling Trident renewal will cover most of that.

 

Nuclear weapons are a thing of the past, if we fire one, Russia will fire one and so the nuclear apocalypse will rid the world of its main pest, mankind.

 

Nukes will be replaced i time with the next gen of mass killing machine but wouldnt it be nice to just spend that dough on better health care education and housing for all. Imagine the good it would do.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:33 ----------

 

Do you not hold much faith in the deterrent effect then?

 

There is no deterrent with nukes. Its a myth. An unhinged nuclear power or an over religious one will not care one jot whats going to come back their way.

[Harleyman]

The west lets Russia do what it wants for now because they have oil and gas and a large army that could be a handful for its neighbours. It cant hope to ever match the States or even a combined Europe. America could and would wipe putin off the map[ and still have plenty left for China. Putin is on borrowed time and he knows it. Its a pity you dont.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:02 ----------

 

 

Hey. We have shed our share of blood in illegal and imoral wars too you know. America dosent have that monopoly.

 

I quite agree but it would seem from the policies of the various groups you mentioned earlier that dropping out is on their agenda

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:44 ----------

 

The NHS needs 8 billion a year, cancelling Trident renewal will cover most of that.

 

Nuclear weapons are a thing of the past, if we fire one, Russia will fire one and so the nuclear apocalypse will rid the world of its main pest, mankind.

 

Just tell that to countries like North Korea. I can imagine what would happen if they were the only country in possession of nuclear weapons

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:46 ----------

 

Really?

 

I always thought the second Iraq war proved that theory to be completely false in that Bush convinced Blair to send British troops off to die in the Middle East, just so we could mourn our dead alongside yours.

 

I was not talking about the past but what could happen if the parties like the Greens and CND ever took power

[mjw47]

Educate yourself.

 

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121026065214/http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/E2054A40-7833-48EF-991C-7F48E05B2C9D/0/nuclear190705.pdf

 

And then again.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publications.parliament.uk%2Fpa%2Fcm200506%2Fcmselect%2Fcmdfence%2F986%2F986we13.htm&ei=yLy-VJSXBInSaJq-gdAG&usg=AFQjCNFGcmZJzy1x62LKAUR4rJr3FJeNxw&bvm=bv.83829542,d.bGQ&cad=rja

 

We do not own Trident it is leased from the Americans and we are dependent on them for support.

 

One of the things they provide us with is the GPS guidance system used to target the missiles.

 

Bit of a problem there if we want to launch and they don't want us to.

[Bill Plant]

And then again.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDkQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.publications.parliament.uk%2Fpa%2Fcm200506%2Fcmselect%2Fcmdfence%2F986%2F986we13.htm&ei=yLy-VJSXBInSaJq-gdAG&usg=AFQjCNFGcmZJzy1x62LKAUR4rJr3FJeNxw&bvm=bv.83829542,d.bGQ&cad=rja

 

We do not own Trident it is leased from the Americans and we are dependent on them for support.

 

One of the things they provide us with is the GPS guidance system used to target the missiles.

 

Bit of a problem there if we want to launch and they don't want us to.

Ive a feeling youre wasting your time mate. People dont want to know.

 

---------- Post added 20-01-2015 at 20:52 ----------

 

I quite agree but it would seem from the policies of the various groups you mentioned earlier that dropping out is on their agenda

 

You mean the CND and SNP? I didnt mention them, that was someone else mate.

[tinfoilhat]

You could argue it makes more sense to keep a nuclear deterent than it does spending money on the eurofighter/typhoon. They cost £23bn as far as I can work out. The RAF hasn't shot anything down since 1948. Surely the new F35 could do all roles.

[tzijlstra]

Do you not hold much faith in the deterrent effect then?

 

No, I don't, in fact, I think it is pathetic. Like a schoolboy running around the playground with a swiss pocket knife shouting he is the toughest.

 

Just tell that to countries like North Korea. I can imagine what would happen if they were the only country in possession of nuclear weapons

 

North Korea hasn't even got a swiss pocket knife, it has wooden toothpicks with nasty language written on them.

 

Nuclear 'deterrents' were dumb when they were invented, they are even dumber now.