mjw47 Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Are you still here? Not for long I guess Well I'll stick around till you get around to explaining why your best mate and future Saint Tony Blair can't be considered for indictment as a war criminal. People who nail their colours to the mast of one political party and stick with them no matter what amuse me. Virtually all politicians in all parties put their personal welfare and that of their party before the interests of the country. It's the nature of the beast. And if you're under the impression that Blair is, or ever was a socialist give your head a shake. http://search.tb.ask.com/search/redirect.jhtml?action=pick&ct=GD&qs=&searchfor=how+wealthy+is+tony+blair&cb=YL&pg=GGmain&p2=%5EYL%5Exdm557%5ELAENUK%5Egb&n=781aa50b&qid=4602019ee15448938b628b743e6291bd&ss=sub&pn=1&st=hp&ptb=E6B70CDC-ACE5-4F29-8E58-CC7A2129F3DC&tpr=hpsb&si=google_soccer-search-uk-teams-phrase-54164823172&redirect=mPWsrdz9heamc8iHEhldEWqfmp1SYf%2FxaZHNeDYGAjaRuHGVkki3f2gmJBT82hatkkXgc7qJ5VdhZdsTegJgRVRR8Q55c1zgLt6lFlqGGMnfMak0%2B9TEf0daIjA2c7C1Evn%2FB7w1Tmmm6u%2BGDcsKfykQVFfg9a3oR0JmhlvXU80%3D&ord=0& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 As I said, there has been a knock on impact across the world but it is still worst in countries involved in interventions and in countries with high numbers of Muslims. It has been a global rallying call. As for proving Islamic terrorism is worse now than before... we didn't have home grown Islamic terrorist attacking us before Western interventions in the Muslim world and the terrorist themselves cite it as a reason for attacking us. Pretty conclusive proof in my eyes. What is indisputable is that the 'war on terror' failed and at huge cost in both financial and human terms. There are lessons to be learn and potentially criminals to punish if it transpires we were taken to war on a deliberately false premise. We need to know what happened. How can the war on terror have failed when it's still ongoing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Ladd Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I already have, pay attention ---------- Post added 21-01-2015 at 18:27 ---------- Jolly good, let's have Operation Fernbridge before the election too, then in that case You keep throwing up stupid and completely irrelevant comments regarding Fernbridge clearly trying to confuse the issue regarding Chilcot. The Fernbridge enquiry is years from reporting. The enquiry team is not yet fully staffed. The basis of this thread is Chilcot. Its ready, its publication seems to being delayed by the lawyers of those likely to be criticized, you know, Blair and his acolytes. Those war criminals you seem determined to defend. Remember Mecky, you seek to defend men and women responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent men and women including hundreds of British armed services personnel. Your repugnant efforts to divert contributors and readers from the truth of these matters does not show you to be a loyal Labour party supporter it shows you to be trapped in in a mindset that makes you believe that if its Labour it cant be wrong, if its Tory it cant be right. Your besotteddness borders on illness. If Fernbridge shows that members of the Tory party are involved then I will be the first to condemn them, but because they are pedophiles not because they are Tories. If Chilcot condemns Blair it is different, his front bench knew the truth, they knew he lied, two resigned, the rest did not, therefore they are as guilty as him. That doesn't mean all Labour supporters are war criminals. Just the leadership then and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 How can the war on terror have failed when it's still ongoing? OK... the 'war on terror' strategy of illegal interventions and invasions of sovereign countries continues to fail. Is that better? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) As I said, there has been a knock on impact across the world but it is still worst in countries involved in interventions and in countries with high numbers of Muslims. It has been a global rallying call. Its worst in the countries with the highest number of Muslims, but I do not see any causation between the increase in attacks and the Iraq/Afgan war. As for proving Islamic terrorism is worse now than before... we didn't have home grown Islamic terrorist attacking us before Western interventions in the Muslim world and the terrorist themselves cite it as a reason for attacking us. Pretty conclusive proof in my eyes. That does not prove causation, we had Islamic extremists in the UK before the Iraq/Afghan war and Islamic terrorists have many excuses for attacking people that disagree with them, What is indisputable is that the 'war on terror' failed and at huge cost in both financial and human terms. There are lessons to be learn and potentially criminals to punish if it transpires we were taken to war on a deliberately false premise. We need to know what happened. The war on terror is not over so it is too early to say whether it as failed. https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/mi5-history/mi5-today/the-rise-of-the-islamist-terrorist-threat.html In July 2000 a Security Service operation, codenamed LARGE, uncovered the first Islamist bomb factory to be detected in Britain. Three months later, a year before 9/11, thanks to its counter-proliferation operations, the Security Service – without realizing it at the time – succeeded in disrupting an attempt by Al Qaida to obtain pathogens in Britain for use in developing biological weapons. Edited January 22, 2015 by anfisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Its worst in the countries with the highest number of Muslims, but I do not see any causation between the increase in attacks and the Iraq/Afgan war. That does not prove causation, we had Islamic extremists in the UK before the Iraq/Afghan war and Islamic terrorists have many excuses for attacking people that disagree with them, The extremists cite it as a cause so how can it not be? The war on terror is not over so it is too early to say whether it as failed. As I said above, it is a strategy that has not worked and the situation has become worse. It is insane to carry on doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. https://www.mi5.gov.uk/home/mi5-history/mi5-today/the-rise-of-the-islamist-terrorist-threat.html In July 2000 a Security Service operation, codenamed LARGE, uncovered the first Islamist bomb factory to be detected in Britain. Three months later, a year before 9/11, thanks to its counter-proliferation operations, the Security Service – without realizing it at the time – succeeded in disrupting an attempt by Al Qaida to obtain pathogens in Britain for use in developing biological weapons. That is interesting but it doesn't change the fact that the threat has increased and the Head of MI5 has said so publicly. The security services have been given huge budget increases to take on additional staff to try and keep on top of the problem but even they admit they are stretched and it is only a matter of time before we have more terror attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anfisa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) OK... the 'war on terror' strategy of illegal interventions and invasions of sovereign countries continues to fail. Is that better? Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein What makes you think that a different result is more desirable than them fighting amongst themselves. What was their excuse before the Iraq/Afghan wars? ---------- Post added 22-01-2015 at 15:54 ---------- The extremists cite it as a cause so how can it not be? They will always look to blame something other than themselves, without the Iraq/Afghan war they would simply have used a different excuse. As I said above, it is a strategy that has not worked and the situation has become worse. It is insane to carry on doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. For now Islamic extremists are being drawn out of this country to fight in Syria and Iraq, why is that not a desirable result and what is it that you think we are doing that we have done over and over again. That is interesting but it doesn't change the fact that the threat has increased and the Head of MI5 has said so publicly. The security services have been given huge budget increases to take on additional staff to try and keep on top of the problem but even they admit they are stretched and it is only a matter of time before we have more terror attacks. That fact that it as increased does not prove causation, it was already increasing prior to the war on terror. What do you think we can do that will stop home grown Islamic terrorism, bearing in mind the countries with lowest percentage of Muslims in their population appear to be the countries that suffer the least Islamic terrorism. Edited January 22, 2015 by anfisa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 The two points under the bold heading crimes against peace would in my opinion apply to both Bush and Blair. ...except that there's no such thing as crimes against peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 ...except that there's no such thing as crimes against peace. Isn't there? Well perhaps you should get in touch with the following agencies and set them straight then. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crimesofwar.org%2Fa-z-guide%2Fcrimes-against-peace%2F&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNGHXFTmOLXd77Mzc6NxXWw000uKmg&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU&cad=rja http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Favalon.law.yale.edu%2Fimt%2Fimtconst.asp&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNFmHod0qUDkfpY64uMgfDbSAbSGkg&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU&cad=rja http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2Fgb%2Facademic%2Fsubjects%2Flaw%2Fpublic-international-law%2Fcrimes-against-peace-and-international-law&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNGx9qKPry4qsRIhG3r1hTT-25-Auw&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU Should keep you busy for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 Isn't there? Well perhaps you should get in touch with the following agencies and set them straight then. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&sqi=2&ved=0CC0QFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crimesofwar.org%2Fa-z-guide%2Fcrimes-against-peace%2F&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNGHXFTmOLXd77Mzc6NxXWw000uKmg&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU&cad=rja http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Favalon.law.yale.edu%2Fimt%2Fimtconst.asp&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNFmHod0qUDkfpY64uMgfDbSAbSGkg&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU&cad=rja http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&sqi=2&ved=0CFgQFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2Fgb%2Facademic%2Fsubjects%2Flaw%2Fpublic-international-law%2Fcrimes-against-peace-and-international-law&ei=69THVPjuHKbV7QaCjYGwDA&usg=AFQjCNGx9qKPry4qsRIhG3r1hTT-25-Auw&bvm=bv.84349003,d.ZGU Should keep you busy for a while. No need. I have access to all the statute law of England & Wales. An extra-territorial entity or agency does not have any law-making powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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