Cycle Lane - The Norton Pub towards Chesterfield

[kelly4danny]

I would imagine that if 80% of cyclists are drivers, then the DoT must have got that figure from somewhere (although their very own findings between 2011-13 portray a total different assumption, Table NTS0608 of https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown).

 

It is strange, and could be a coincidence that the AA/RAC reported in the same years that 80% of adult males owned a cycle???

 

Statistics are made up of results of a small group questioned on a particular topic, to establish facts to build a picture. For example, I asked several neighbours on my mums road if they were cyclists. Not a single one of them said they were, although a few did say that they owned a bike, but never rode it. Yet the majority of students asked were most definately cyclists, yet only a handful could legally drive a motor car? Is this yet another assumption by polls that a certain activity was only really popular or conclusive on the day it was raised? To add, there is also the ratio of car/cycles actually on the roads. Its clear there are more cars than bikes, otherwise there would be a cycle inbetween every single vehicle on the road.

From what it posted and what is factual, I would say that the 80% figure is total hogwash, and that overall the figure of drivers who actually do cycle is much much lower, which would explain why so many cyclists dont have much savvy where road regulations are concerned. Maybe it would be better if the DoT would either get their figures to a more accurate level, and introduce a compulsary safety course for every person who wishes to use their bikes on the road. Its in the cyclists interests to do this, and not to quote statistics on their rights to be there to blanket over the fact that a lot of cyclists just do not care about the law.

[Annie Bynnol]

I would imagine that if 80% of cyclists are drivers, then the DoT must have got that figure from somewhere (although their very own findings between 2011-13 portray a total different assumption, Table NTS0608 of https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown).

 

It is strange, and could be a coincidence that the AA/RAC reported in the same years that 80% of adult males owned a cycle???

 

Statistics are made up of results of a small group questioned on a particular topic, to establish facts to build a picture. For example, I asked several neighbours on my mums road if they were cyclists. Not a single one of them said they were, although a few did say that they owned a bike, but never rode it. Yet the majority of students asked were most definately cyclists, yet only a handful could legally drive a motor car? Is this yet another assumption by polls that a certain activity was only really popular or conclusive on the day it was raised? To add, there is also the ratio of car/cycles actually on the roads. Its clear there are more cars than bikes, otherwise there would be a cycle inbetween every single vehicle on the road.

From what it posted and what is factual, I would say that the 80% figure is total hogwash, and that overall the figure of drivers who actually do cycle is much much lower, which would explain why so many cyclists dont have much savvy where road regulations are concerned. Maybe it would be better if the DoT would either get their figures to a more accurate level, and introduce a compulsary safety course for every person who wishes to use their bikes on the road. Its in the cyclists interests to do this, and not to quote statistics on their rights to be there to blanket over the fact that a lot of cyclists just do not care about the law.

 

However unreliable the 80% figure is it is a lot more reliable than asking a few questions on your mums road and from that extrapolating national figures.

 

 

I would not expect to see many cyclists in between cars on the Oxford ring road but I would also expect to see few cars between cyclists in the Oxford city centre.

Many English cities have much higher rates of cycle use than Sheffield which for obvious reasons was approaching zero in the early eighties.

That one group of road users complain about another group is normal but to deny that it is a growing and spreading form of transport is rather silly.

 

How many car drivers are taught how to drive on a Motorway?

 

99.9% of motor vehicle drivers are also pedestrians.

 

Its clear there are more cars than pedestrians otherwise there would be a person in between every single vehicle on the road.

[altus]

I would imagine that if 80% of cyclists are drivers, then the DoT must have got that figure from somewhere (although their very own findings between 2011-13 portray a total different assumption, Table NTS0608 of https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown).

 

It is strange, and could be a coincidence that the AA/RAC reported in the same years that 80% of adult males owned a cycle???

 

Statistics are made up of results of a small group questioned on a particular topic, to establish facts to build a picture. For example, I asked several neighbours on my mums road if they were cyclists. Not a single one of them said they were, although a few did say that they owned a bike, but never rode it. Yet the majority of students asked were most definately cyclists, yet only a handful could legally drive a motor car? Is this yet another assumption by polls that a certain activity was only really popular or conclusive on the day it was raised? To add, there is also the ratio of car/cycles actually on the roads. Its clear there are more cars than bikes, otherwise there would be a cycle inbetween every single vehicle on the road.

Statistics are made up of representative samples of people not a small number of specific groups. Your neighbours are not representative of the country as a whole and neither are students. Even if they were, in both cases the number of people asked it far too small to give representative results - the surveys in your link ask about 8000 people for example.

 

From what it posted and what is factual, I would say that the 80% figure is total hogwash, and that overall the figure of drivers who actually do cycle is much much lower

 

It's the number of cyclists who drive we are discussing not the number of drivers who cycle. The documents in your link don't provide figures for that.

 

Where we get the 80% figure from is from a written answer to a question asked in parliament on 9 May 2011 as reported in Hansard:

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his estimate is of the proportion of cyclists that own cars. [53988]

 

Norman Baker: Some 83% of the cyclists participating in the National Travel Survey in 2008 and 2009 were resident in a household with access to a car or van.

 

The equivalent overall figure for all survey respondents in Great Britain was 82%.

 

This is just cyclists who have a car or van. Some cyclists will have driving licences but not own a vehicle so the total proportion of cyclists with driving licences will be higher.

[denlin]

I think assertively is a better word to describe it.

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 14:50 ----------

 

 

You can claim that all you like but the number of cyclists with driving licences is against you.

 

If indeed that is the case as you claim there is even less reason for them not to obey the same rules of the road as when they are behind the wheel unless of course they shoot red lights then too

[damageandy]

I would imagine that if 80% of cyclists are drivers, then the DoT must have got that figure from somewhere (although their very own findings between 2011-13 portray a total different assumption, Table NTS0608 of https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown).

 

It is strange, and could be a coincidence that the AA/RAC reported in the same years that 80% of adult males owned a cycle???

 

Statistics are made up of results of a small group questioned on a particular topic, to establish facts to build a picture. For example, I asked several neighbours on my mums road if they were cyclists. Not a single one of them said they were, although a few did say that they owned a bike, but never rode it. Yet the majority of students asked were most definately cyclists, yet only a handful could legally drive a motor car? Is this yet another assumption by polls that a certain activity was only really popular or conclusive on the day it was raised? To add, there is also the ratio of car/cycles actually on the roads. Its clear there are more cars than bikes, otherwise there would be a cycle inbetween every single vehicle on the road.

From what it posted and what is factual, I would say that the 80% figure is total hogwash, and that overall the figure of drivers who actually do cycle is much much lower, which would explain why so many cyclists dont have much savvy where road regulations are concerned. Maybe it would be better if the DoT would either get their figures to a more accurate level, and introduce a compulsary safety course for every person who wishes to use their bikes on the road. Its in the cyclists interests to do this, and not to quote statistics on their rights to be there to blanket over the fact that a lot of cyclists just do not care about the law.

 

 

You can say its hogwosh, but lets be honest the DoT have alot more knowledge and information and resources than you do, so yeah in reality its not is it. Maybe just accept that your past posting were wrong and be gracious about learning soemthing new, instead of carrying on attempting to argue against stone cold facts.

 

Yes some cyclist are bad, most are not, if you want to see how many drivers dont know or follow the highway code go into town and take a 10 minute ride and see how many cars over take ignoring what the highway code states.

[altus]

If indeed that is the case as you claim there is even less reason for them not to obey the same rules of the road as when they are behind the wheel unless of course they shoot red lights then too

 

Nobody should shoot red lights. Or speed, overtake when it's not safe to do so,etc.

 

Some people are idiots. Sometimes those people drive a car. Sometimes they ride a bike. Sometimes they walk. Some of them generalise the bad behaviour of a few to a whole group.

[denlin]

Statistics are made up of representative samples of people not a small number of specific groups. Your neighbours are not representative of the country as a whole and neither are students. Even if they were, in both cases the number of people asked it far too small to give representative results - the surveys in your link ask about 8000 people for example.

 

 

 

It's the number of cyclists who drive we are discussing not the number of drivers who cycle. The documents in your link don't provide figures for that.

 

Where we get the 80% figure from is from a written answer to a question asked in parliament on 9 May 2011 as reported in Hansard:

 

This is just cyclists who have a car or van. Some cyclists will have driving licences but not own a vehicle so the total proportion of cyclists with driving licences will be higher.

 

Higher than 83%, what 90%, 100%? The likelihood of that number of cyclists having a driving licence cannot be right. You seriously expect an honest answer in the Houses of Parliament. This is what it actually says

 

Cycling: Motor Vehicles

 

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his estimate is of the proportion of cyclists that own cars. [53988]

 

Norman Baker: Some 83% of the cyclists participating in the National Travel Survey in 2008 and 2009 were resident in a household with access to a car or van.

 

The equivalent overall figure for all survey respondents in Great Britain was 82%.

 

It does not say that 83% of cyclists have licenses only access to a vehicle probably owned and driven by someone else so Norman Baker, surprise, surprise, did not answer the question that was actually asked.

Edited January 25, 2015 by denlin

[kelly4danny]

You can say its hogwosh, but lets be honest the DoT have alot more knowledge and information and resources than you do, so yeah in reality its not is it. Maybe just accept that your past posting were wrong and be gracious about learning soemthing new, instead of carrying on attempting to argue against stone cold facts.

 

Yes some cyclist are bad, most are not, if you want to see how many drivers dont know or follow the highway code go into town and take a 10 minute ride and see how many cars over take ignoring what the highway code states.

 

Im not argueing against cold hard facts andrew. I understand how statistics are made, but statistics are only valid when the concensus is larger, ie like a Mori poll on vote swings etc. I was trying to say that although the figures stated on the .gov site showed the 80% figure, the DoT,s own findings were different, and had been done on a much wider scale.

The bold ive pointed out does shows that you are probably more inclined to side with cyclists, which is OK if the cyclists you refer to are intellegent human beings, which is sadly not always the case. I wonder just how many people here on the forum are cyclists who dont drive a car, and vice versa.

I dont feel wrong to question this subject as I dont drive, yet I cycle every day. Im also a passenger in my boyfriends car, and the cyclist that I mentioned earlier in the post was a total loony. I wonder if he was a car driver too, because under the assumption that he was because apparently most cyclists are car drivers, well he shouldnt drive a car either.

How can that be arguementative, if you yourself claim the stats are right?

[altus]

Higher than 83%, what 90%, 100%? The likelihood of that number of cyclists having a driving licence cannot be right.

 

Come up with a better figure then. Show your justification for it so we can judge how reliable it is likely to be.

[denlin]

From travelling to work during rush hour for the last ten years and the percentage of people I know who own cycles and also have a driving licence and I have worked close to the city centre and worked with over 1000 people and if you take that as an average it's about 30% who cycle and also have driving licences compared with the number of vehicles actually on the road