Cycle Lane - The Norton Pub towards Chesterfield

[Cyclone]

The cycle lane was put in last summer I believe so it won't appear on satellite google maps.

 

Is it on the road then, or is it on the pavement?

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:08 ----------

 

I would imagine that if 80% of cyclists are drivers, then the DoT must have got that figure from somewhere (although their very own findings between 2011-13 portray a total different assumption, Table NTS0608 of https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/nts06-age-gender-and-modal-breakdown).

 

It is strange, and could be a coincidence that the AA/RAC reported in the same years that 80% of adult males owned a cycle???

 

Statistics are made up of results of a small group questioned on a particular topic, to establish facts to build a picture. For example, I asked several neighbours on my mums road if they were cyclists. Not a single one of them said they were, although a few did say that they owned a bike, but never rode it. Yet the majority of students asked were most definately cyclists, yet only a handful could legally drive a motor car? Is this yet another assumption by polls that a certain activity was only really popular or conclusive on the day it was raised? To add, there is also the ratio of car/cycles actually on the roads. Its clear there are more cars than bikes, otherwise there would be a cycle inbetween every single vehicle on the road.

From what it posted and what is factual, I would say that the 80% figure is total hogwash, and that overall the figure of drivers who actually do cycle is much much lower, which would explain why so many cyclists dont have much savvy where road regulations are concerned. Maybe it would be better if the DoT would either get their figures to a more accurate level, and introduce a compulsary safety course for every person who wishes to use their bikes on the road. Its in the cyclists interests to do this, and not to quote statistics on their rights to be there to blanket over the fact that a lot of cyclists just do not care about the law.

 

I surveyed the cyclists in my office, all of them can drive.

So by my equally anecdotal evidence, all cyclists can and do drive.

 

I'd also question your "most students can't drive". When I went to uni nearly every student could drive (didn't, but could).

I could ask the club I teach if this is still the case, I bet 80% do have licenses (or more, since many now have cars unlike when I went to uni).

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:09 ----------

 

Nobody should shoot red lights. Or speed, overtake when it's not safe to do so,etc.

 

Some people are idiots. Sometimes those people drive a car. Sometimes they ride a bike. Sometimes they walk. Some of them generalise the bad behaviour of a few to a whole group.

 

Well said.

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:11 ----------

 

Im not argueing against cold hard facts andrew. I understand how statistics are made, but statistics are only valid when the concensus is larger, ie like a Mori poll on vote swings etc. I was trying to say that although the figures stated on the .gov site showed the 80% figure, the DoT,s own findings were different, and had been done on a much wider scale.

The DoT poll that you quoted was asking an entirely different question

The bold ive pointed out does shows that you are probably more inclined to side with cyclists, which is OK if the cyclists you refer to are intellegent human beings, which is sadly not always the case.

Exactly the same as drivers then.

I wonder just how many people here on the forum are cyclists who dont drive a car, and vice versa.

Very few cyclists who don't drive. Many drivers who don't cycle.

But start a poll and find out for yourself!

I dont feel wrong to question this subject as I dont drive, yet I cycle every day. Im also a passenger in my boyfriends car, and the cyclist that I mentioned earlier in the post was a total loony. I wonder if he was a car driver too, because under the assumption that he was because apparently most cyclists are car drivers, well he shouldnt drive a car either.

How can that be arguementative, if you yourself claim the stats are right?

Some people probably shouldn't be allowed on the road at all, agreed.

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:12 ----------

 

From travelling to work during rush hour for the last ten years and the percentage of people I know who own cycles and also have a driving licence and I have worked close to the city centre and worked with over 1000 people and if you take that as an average it's about 30% who cycle and also have driving licences compared with the number of vehicles actually on the road

 

Are you claiming that 70% of people who cycle DON'T have driving licenses?

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:14 ----------

 

Regardless of whether the stats are right or wrong, there must be something not quite right. It does seem that many people know many others who cycle, but dont drive.

Does it? When did this happen?

I can see that its probably a financial thing, equally as a driver may choose to cycle to reduce travel costs, but surely the the stats must be out by a considerable margin. Even just learning to drive these days is an enormous expense, never mind running a car. If the prospect of passing a test led to another massive expense of actually owning/running a car, it would make a lot of people not bother, and just cycle everywhere. If this is so, where were these non-driving cyclists when the research was done?

 

Most people learn to drive as it's a life skill.

 

Commuting cyclists tend to do so for a number of reasons, speed, convenience, cost and health benefits. They are generally making a choice to cycle instead of drive, not doing it out of necessity.

[damageandy]

The sad, and very real fact is 99% of drivers will stop for animals, let others drivers out of roads etc but when it comes to cyclists they won't give them 2 feet of room or wait 5 seconds instead of overtaking dangerously. They'll pass you then turn left across you into a side road instead of waiting a few seconds, they'll turn right across you forcing you to brake, pass over double white lines right next to a blind bend and all sorts of other stupid manoeuvres.

 

It happens a hell of a lot more when I'm on the bike than it does when I'm in the car, so you can only assume that most drivers view cyclists differently to how they view other road users.

 

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 17:56 ----------

 

 

Out of all the cyclists I know there is only 1 who doesn't have a driving license.

 

I dont agree with the 99% thing, i think most drivers are good. From my experience id say 74% give more than enough room overtaking 25% just about enough but should leave abit more and that 1% that leave about a foot.

 

By rights cyclists could take up the whole lane if they wished to do so, so be thankful that the majority dont.

 

 

@ cyclone - the cycle lane in question is on the road - the rider was completly in the wrong and must be a complete fool.

Edited January 25, 2015 by damageandy

[denlin]

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---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:12 ----------

 

[/color]

 

Are you claiming that 70% of people who cycle DON'T have driving licenses?

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:14 ----------

 

 

No I'm claiming that 70% of drivers don't cycle based on number of number of cars on road as opposed to number of cycles on road. Having access to a vehicle can be as a passenger without actually being able to legally drive a car. I'm suggesting a fair poll would be to do a survey of car drivers instead of cyclists and ask them how many actually use a bike

[Cyclone]

So what? That figure isn't in dispute or at all interesting.

 

The point is that most cyclists drive. We already know that most motorists don't cycle.

 

Nobody cares how many car users use a bike, it tells us nothing we don't know.

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 18:28 ----------

 

I dont agree with the 99% thing, i think most drivers are good. From my experience id say 74% give more than enough room overtaking 25% just about enough but should leave abit more and that 1% that leave about a foot.

 

By rights cyclists could take up the whole lane if they wished to do so, so be thankful that the majority dont.

 

 

@ cyclone - the cycle lane in question is on the road - the rider was completly in the wrong and must be a complete fool.

 

Yep, agreed. Sounds suicidal, which I think I said on page 1.

 

I also agree that most motorists are reasonably careful and courteous.

The difference is that when they aren't, you are at high risk of serious injury or death.

If someone overtakes my car at 30 mph and then turns left and I run into them, I'll be angry.

If someone does that whilst I'm cycling (it's happened once in my life, last year), then it could very well kill me.

 

So it sticks in my mind.

[denlin]

So what? That figure isn't in dispute or at all interesting.

 

The point is that most cyclists drive. We already know that most motorists don't cycle.

 

Nobody cares how many car users use a bike, it tells us nothing we don't know.

 

What about the inconsistent figures put out to a question in parliament which answered a question that wasn't actually the one that was asked

[damageandy]

Denlin

 

Could you do everyone a favour and just read through what you have just typed a few times before posting it because most of it is very unclear or just doesnt make any sense.

[Cyclone]

 

What about the inconsistent figures put out to a question in parliament which answered a question that wasn't actually the one that was asked

 

They answered to the best of their ability I think.

 

Q. What % of cyclists have a driving license?

A. 80% of cyclists live in a household with access to a car.

 

It's not an exact answer, it's possible that in a partnership, the "access to a car" could mean that the partner can drive only. That's unlikely though.

 

In the UK, I'd hazard a guess that most adults can drive. And since we're specifically talking about adult use of cycles, it follows that most cyclists can drive. Which matches up with the simplest interpretation of the answer given above. Household with access to a car, implying that the cyclist can drive.

 

---------- Post added 25-01-2015 at 19:10 ----------

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/20563/response/54931/attach/3/London%20and%20rest%20of%20GB%20driving%20licence%20stats%201.pdf

 

36.5 million licensed car drivers in the UK.

 

49.5 million adults (approx)

 

73% of adults in the UK can drive.

 

Chances are that 73% of cyclists can drive then, since they are adults in the UK.

[altus]

They answered to the best of their ability I think.

 

Q. What % of cyclists have a driving license?

A. 80% of cyclists live in a household with access to a car.

 

It's not an exact answer, it's possible that in a partnership, the "access to a car" could mean that the partner can drive only. That's unlikely though.

 

The question was about the proportion of cyclist that own cars. Given that people with company cars don't own them, those who lease them don't own them and even those who've bought them on HP don't legally own them until they've made the final payment, the "access to a car" answer is a better approximation of number of cyclists who drive than strict ownership numbers.

[Cyclone]

The question was about the proportion of cyclist that own cars. Given that people with company cars don't own them, those who lease them don't own them and even those who've bought them on HP don't legally own them until they've made the final payment, the "access to a car" answer is a better approximation of number of cyclists who drive than strict ownership numbers.

 

Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his estimate is of the proportion of cyclists that own cars. [53988]

 

Norman Baker: Some 83% of the cyclists participating in the National Travel Survey in 2008 and 2009 were resident in a household with access to a car or van.

 

The ANSWER though, was about the number of cyclists resident in a HOUSEHOLD with access to a car. Not necessarily one they can drive, or that they own.

[stifflersmom]

Is it on the road then, or is it on the pavement?

 

 

It is on the road, as specified in the OP.