Would unemployment have been ended if there had been no immigration ??

[ubermaus]

The unemployment stats are always showing a drop in numbers

 

Yet with immigration another 200, 000 plus people are coming into the country each year (met). So that's 1.5 million extra people since 2004.

 

Unemployment stats are at around 1.75 million so if there had been no immigration then surely there only be about 0.25 million people unemployed now.

 

The English would have been forced to take the jobs

 

Costs of benefits would be far lower as almost everyone would be in work and paying into system

 

Why didn't governments choose to cut jobless numbers?

 

There has to be a percentage of unemployment at any one time. Otherwise there would be no fluidity in the workforce. 2-5% is about right for a prosperous economy.

Even Denmark, Norway don't have 0% unemployment.

 

The issue of employment is we have too many low paid jobs, or jobs under 'living wage' that don't provide people disposible income, that dont pay the government tax money.

 

Now the figures are massaged further with mass self employment and zero hour contracts.

 

---------- Post added 26-01-2015 at 11:51 ----------

 

How do you "force" people to take jobs they aren't qualified for? Since many immigrants are skilled and filling holes in our workforce that we lack enough trained people for.

 

---------- Post added 26-01-2015 at 07:32 ----------

 

 

And yet the immigrants (the ones on low pay, not the immigrant engineers, doctors or even nurses) still live on this pay "below the living wage". Making a mockery of the term rather.

 

Some immigrants do. And they dont pay tax on that kind of wage usually. And they are more likely to save or send money back to country of origin.

 

---------- Post added 26-01-2015 at 11:52 ----------

 

Joker is right. Work just doesn't pay in this country for a lot of people hence why millions of working people are still subsidised by the state in the form of low tax, working tax credit, child tax credit, housing benefit etc. etc.

 

---------- Post added 26-01-2015 at 11:56 ----------

 

cleaners, bus drivers, shop workers etc. should all be on £8 per hour minimum. Middle managers, execs, directors and shareholders should all take a pay cut or face an increase in income tax to pay for it. Sorted.

[Cyclone]

The unemployed brits could have picked fruit out of the fields like they used to do, and work the factorys.

They could. But they won't. Stopping immigrants doing the job will simply mean that the fruit rots in the fields.

 

I wouldn't have forced them to work, I'd just not paid benefits to those who chose to not work.

They can't chose to be Drs or nurses without the correct qualifications.

This was the mid 2000's, obviously its too late now as the foregn workers took the jobs the workshy didn't want to do.

 

But had the brits been forced to work 10 years ago, then the unemployed stats would be less than 250,000 now

I doubt it, but even if you're correct, it's not an immigration problem, it's a lack of desire to work problem (but there are relatively few long term unemployed. Most unemployed are temporarily between jobs).

[apelike]

The unemployed brits could have picked fruit out of the fields like they used to do, and work the factorys.

 

I wouldn't have forced them to work, I'd just not paid benefits to those who chose to not work.

 

This was the mid 2000's, obviously its too late now as the foregn workers took the jobs the workshy didn't want to do.

 

But had the brits been forced to work 10 years ago, then the unemployed stats would be less than 250,000 now

 

Several points..

 

Did the fruit supply suddenly stop and was it rotting in the fields because nobody was willing to pick fruit? No, for the simple reason people were already picking fruit from the fields.

 

Benefits are not paid to those who chose not to work.

 

What proof do you have that foreigners took the jobs the work-shy wouldn't do and that the unemployed stats would now be less than 250,000?

[Blackbeard]

Several points..

 

Did the fruit supply suddenly stop and was it rotting in the fields because nobody was willing to pick fruit? No, for the simple reason people were already picking fruit from the fields.

 

Benefits are not paid to those who chose not to work.

 

What proof do you have that foreigners took the jobs the work-shy wouldn't do and that the unemployed stats would now be less than 250,000?

 

No real proof but a quote from the NUF president.

" MORE migrant workers are needed to pick crops because some Britons do not have the required work ethic.

 

That is the belief of the president of the National Farmers' Union who claimed many unemployed British people were unwilling to get up in time to start harvesting at 6am."

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11484987.More_foreign_workers_needed_to_do_farm_work_unemployed_and__lazy__Brits_won_t_do/?ref=mr

[apelike]

No real proof but a quote from the NUF president.

" MORE migrant workers are needed to pick crops because some Britons do not have the required work ethic.

 

That is the belief of the president of the National Farmers' Union who claimed many unemployed British people were unwilling to get up in time to start harvesting at 6am."

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11484987.More_foreign_workers_needed_to_do_farm_work_unemployed_and__lazy__Brits_won_t_do/?ref=mr

 

NUF, an organisation that is mainly made up of Tory farm owners and voters and hated it when gang-masters were regulated.

 

PS I worked in Nynehead in Somerset for several seasons picking fruit (apples and Strawberries) in the past, very few were not UK born and with lots of NA travellers.

[Rotherham1]

The unemployed brits could have picked fruit out of the fields like they used to do, and work the factorys.

 

I wouldn't have forced them to work, I'd just not paid benefits to those who chose to not work.

 

This was the mid 2000's, obviously its too late now as the foregn workers took the jobs the workshy didn't want to do.

 

But had the brits been forced to work 10 years ago, then the unemployed stats would be less than 250,000 now

250,000 don't make me laugh. If you look deeper into the situ now, with youth force into apprenticeship and other into major shop on government training scheme, the true figure will be more like 4,000,000

What % of people is on a benefit of some type (excluding child benefit) in uk? I suspect over 30% are just taking and not putting into the system. Just be thankful the bankers, ceo and high earner are helping to support all those people on benefit of some type

[Cyclone]

No real proof but a quote from the NUF president.

" MORE migrant workers are needed to pick crops because some Britons do not have the required work ethic.

 

That is the belief of the president of the National Farmers' Union who claimed many unemployed British people were unwilling to get up in time to start harvesting at 6am."

http://www.herefordtimes.com/news/11484987.More_foreign_workers_needed_to_do_farm_work_unemployed_and__lazy__Brits_won_t_do/?ref=mr

 

And if the immigrants didn't pick it, we'd still have the same unemployment, but nobody would pick the fruit.

[apelike]

And if the immigrants didn't pick it, we'd still have the same unemployment, but nobody would pick the fruit.

 

Its a false argument to say the nobody would pick the fruit as its always been picked in the past. Farmers are greedy and would not produce crops that they could not sell. We have always have had fruit in the markets as it was always picked when ready.

 

On of the ways farmers guaranteed workers were available was to have them camped for free in fields on site. The pay was piecework and maybe you could earn £10-£15 per day if you picked from 6 am till 4-5 pm. That's one of the reasons it attracts many foreign workers.

[Cyclone]

And it's the reason that the unemployed presumably can't be forced to do it, because it pays less than minimum wage (by a huge margin apparently).

[chem1st]

NUF, an organisation that is mainly made up of Tory farm owners and voters and hated it when gang-masters were regulated.

 

Tories who claim CAP subsidies and can employ foreign labour, imported for the task and paid sub miniumum wage due to deductions for housing etc.

 

They have the market sewn up.

 

Of course they would employ people to pick the fruit, it's just that they do it for as cheap as possible whilst claiming subsidies, some have even quit to claim subsidies as farming isn't profitable for them, but owning land is.

 

Real crises of land ownership going on, not many tenant farmers are able to compete.

 

No real competition. If we had commons I'd be growing food for market for sale for much less at a profit for myself.

 

I'm sure many others would too.

PS I worked in Nynehead in Somerset for several seasons picking fruit (apples and Strawberries) in the past, very few were not UK born and with lots of NA travellers.

 

Many would do such work. Just need to be paid a fair wage.

 

The fruits of one's labour and all that.