Times tables : why make children learn their 12x?

[aliceBB]

That's it, really.

 

What's the point of committing the 12x table to memory (see Tories' plans to shake up primary education yet again:rolleyes:) when the two imperial measurement systems which depended on it (shillings and pence pre-1971, and feet and inches) are now obsolete and certainly not used in schools?

 

I'm all for everyone knowing their tables up to 10x, but children might as well learn their 93x table off by heart, as their 12x, for all the use of it. Another stupid idea from the Ministry of Mis-Education.

[Obelix]

I seem to recall that Labour insisted on the same when they were in power in the late 70's and the late 90's but hey, let's ignore the facts. Any excuse to have a moan at the current Govt. hey?

[aliceBB]

I seem to recall that Labour insisted on the same when they were in power in the late 70's and the late 90's but hey, let's ignore the facts. Any excuse to have a moan at the current Govt. hey?

 

Absolutely. Just another brick in the wall.

 

That aside, do you have a view on the question itself, or did you just come on here to moan about my political views?

 

For example, in what practical situation have any of your scout troop ever needed to know their 12x tables off by heart? (I'm not assuming you have any children of your own as - on this forum at least - you seem so relentlessly grumpy and humourless. But if you have, feel free to include them in your answer).

Edited February 3, 2015 by aliceBB

[ECCOnoob]

Its a traditional education thing. Pre-decimalisation it was easier to do most calculations by using up to x12 tables. It seems as good a place as any to go up to and has been well used as standard level of curriculum for years. Many believe (including myself) that repetition and committing to memory as you say is a far more effective way (albeit more boring) than learning by other methods.

 

We have a clear lack of literacy and numeracy in this country which seems to be getting worse and worse.

 

The soppy creative learning approaches may well get the grades but I don't see it as a roaring success in the real world. I see many a school leaver and even further education leaver joining the workplace with very poor spelling, grammar and numeracy skills. Whilst of course the age of technology must be embraced, seeing professional emails and documents with "txt spk" being used and staff members failing to do even the most basic of sums without calculators rather concerning.

 

Maybe kids would prefer to learn times tables like the French method up to x20. Im sure that would go down a storm.

Edited February 3, 2015 by ECCOnoob

[Obelix]

Absolutely. Just another brick in the wall.

 

That aside, do you have a view on the question itself, or did you just come on here to moan about my political views?

 

For example, in what practical situation have any of your scout troop ever needed to know their 12x tables off by heart? (I'm not assuming you have any children of your own as - on this forum at least - you seem so relentlessly grumpy and humourless. But if you have, feel free to include them in your answer).

 

Awwwww lets trot out the abuse while we have chance yes? So you don't actually care about education then - just another excuse to have a moan at the Govt. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I'd prefer to have everyone learn up to the 20x thanks. Learning by rote may seem trite and deeply uncool but it is incredibly useful and if the UK plc is to stay afloat then it's going to need people who are adept at science, accountancy, engineering, statistics, all the deeply uncool things where knowing what 13x17 quicker than a calculator is actually useful...

 

Oh as for the Scouts, no idea about the 12 times table. We were using 17 times tables when building a little pioneering project though a couple of weeks back - 17 being a fairly common strand count in construction cable.

[Allen]

To answer the OP.....I don't give a dam if it is 10x tables or 12x tables.

It's tables, and about time children had to learn them in school again.

My generation learned them and it's been invaluable.

Just yesterday I went in the village shop to buy three packs of firelighters at 65 pence each.

The shop has an old fashioned till (non of this scanning lark) and the guy had to use a calculator to get the price of £1-95.

 

It's back to basics....and common sense.

[Harleyman]

That's it, really.

 

What's the point of committing the 12x table to memory (see Tories' plans to shake up primary education yet again:rolleyes:) when the two imperial measurement systems which depended on it (shillings and pence pre-1971, and feet and inches) are now obsolete and certainly not used in schools?

 

I'm all for everyone knowing their tables up to 10x, but children might as well learn their 93x table off by heart, as their 12x, for all the use of it. Another stupid idea from the Ministry of Mis-Education.

 

The 12 times multiplication isn't just learned in British schools and it doesn't have anything to do with the Tories or politics .

 

What you're suggesting is even more "dumbing down" of young minds. We have enough of that already

[Mecky]

Mr Shiny Forehead has come in for some right national stick over it too. Any of these chumps try and flip the argument by saying Labour tried to do this ?

Edited February 3, 2015 by Mecky

[aliceBB]

Perhaps one of those who feels vehemently that learning the 12x table off by heart is essential, could explain why. So far, you have all endorsed it as an unquestionably Good Thing, without giving any proper reasons.

 

Is it because you think it is good for children to be able to commit things to memory per se? I agree that it is a useful skill, but if that's the case, then learning the tables facts up to 10 x 10 surely demonstrates that they can do it. My question was, why do they need to learn them by heart beyond 10x? If you want to calculate 12x something (which is extremely rare in everyday life), you simply use the 6x and double it. There would be more of an argument for knowing 13x, 17x and 19 x, but no politician has ever suggested that. If the point is that things should be learnt for which instant recall is useful, then the 2x to 10x are enough. Children could use the extra time to learn a few sonnets, or Spanish words for food items, a list of breeds of dangerous dogs and how to recognise them, or some interesting facts about the kings and queens of England. Much more edifying and useful!

 

I knew my 11x and 12x tables by heart when at school, but have never needed them since decimal money and metric measurements came in...so I've now forgotten them and my life is none the worse for it. I actually use both systems of linear measurement (imperial and metric) in my work as a decorator and renovator, but I've never needed to know how many inches 9' 11" is, or whatever. If I need to multiply or divide big numbers, I use a pencil and paper or a calculator.

 

As I said, I have no objection whatsoever to children committing some things to memory, but if the content of rote learning exercises cannot be justified on a utility basis, what is the point?

 

As for 'dumbing down' ...I'd suggest that is what is happening when people cannot construct a simple argument for something they think is right, saying only that 'it's done elsewhere' or 'I had to do it' , therefore it must be right.

Edited February 3, 2015 by aliceBB

[Mecky]

I see reporter Andy Bell yesterday asked Cameron what 9 x 8 was and Cameron wouldn't answer.