Labour - Limit dole to 2 years

[Happ Hazzard]

Mike Oldfield came from a rich family I think. Went to public school at least. Fairly sure at least some members of Oasis had day jobs. You don't need to be practicing 24/7 to make it big. How do you think bands in America cope? You can't sit on the dole for years hoping to make it big over there.

[ubermaus]

You are still confusing matters. The question is: Should people on JSA have a time-cap for the amount of time they receive JSA on top of their standard benefit entitlements?

 

It isn't about the living wage or anything else. You've made clear, repeatedly, that you wouldn't work for minimum wage now. You don't have to though, as I understand it you have a job that pays more. If however you had been long term unemployed and turned those opportunities down, how would you expect to find work, if you are not prepared to put in the graft and start somewhere?

 

 

Sure, paying everybody a living wage is a brilliant and noble goal, but again, that is not the core of this debate, the core of it is: Should people wilt away at home, not contributing anything to society simply because they choose not to engage with employment?

 

Your opinion is that they can as long as there is no living wage, my opinion is hell no, get them to be productive, then talk about the living wage.

 

But the difference i see between me and you is despite being able to earn more i still want to help people move up. Where as you look at poor people like scum just cos you do a PhD (not paying tax btw)

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 19:53 ----------

 

What you got to be so smug about ive no idea. Maybe get out of school and your ivory tower and contribute first before making judgements bout others

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 19:58 ----------

 

Yes the derogatory vehement views you aim at the unemployed and the vulnerable are abhorrent. If folk like yourself put in as much effort into helping instead of hating, Britian would be a much more productive and nicer place to live.

 

Yes billions alone has come from artists such as UB40, The Prodigy, Oasis, Sex Pistols and Mike Oldfield. All their classic albums which generated billions and billions for UK economy was written whilst they was all on the dole. Stopping this creativity would be devastating for the economy.

 

Agree. The views are whats wrong with this country. Typical hot air academic who should get a job. I know a lot of them.

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 20:00 ----------

 

Don't be pathetic. In my opinion if you can work, you should work. Are you suggesting that these artists wouldn't have been able to break through if they had actually held down work?

 

I happen to be a massive Prodigy fan, Liam Howlett is the driving force behind them, he was 19 when he formed The Prodigy, "Charlie says" came out the year he decided to dedicate himself to music.

 

by 21 they had released their definitive break through album The Experience. Yeah, they really needed to be on the dole as teenagers to achieve that.

 

Your argument is incredibly flawed. If we need to maintain 200,000 long term unemployed, costing around 20K each every year, than I'd rather do without Oasis and save the 4 billion that is spent on them.

 

As someone who dedicated 20 years of his life to looking after an autist I will leave you to guess my opinion on you claiming I hate the vulnerable.

 

You dont work. Dont even pay taxes. Just another pompous keyboard jockey with an internet connection. Who you trying to fool?

[gwhite78]

Don't be pathetic. In my opinion if you can work, you should work. Are you suggesting that these artists wouldn't have been able to break through if they had actually held down work?

 

I happen to be a massive Prodigy fan, Liam Howlett is the driving force behind them, he was 19 when he formed The Prodigy, "Charlie says" came out the year he decided to dedicate himself to music.

 

by 21 they had released their definitive break through album The Experience. Yeah, they really needed to be on the dole as teenagers to achieve that.

 

Your argument is incredibly flawed. If we need to maintain 200,000 long term unemployed, costing around 20K each every year, than I'd rather do without Oasis and save the 4 billion that is spent on them.

 

As someone who dedicated 20 years of his life to looking after an autist I will leave you to guess my opinion on you claiming I hate the vulnerable.

 

No you're argument is factually wrong and weaker than a dead man in a corpse.

 

For starters JSA is around £3.500 a year and less than 3% of the whole welfare bill. In the whole scheme of things it isn't even negligible.

 

What Evil Lurks was Prodigy's first official release. Not Charlie.

 

Ensuring the creativity continues from people on the dole is crucial for our economy, it depends on artists.

 

Imagine the cost to the economy if just our music industry alone was almost wiped out, we are a nation full of artists, lets create spaces where these talent can flourish. Keep the dole for the sake of the economy.

[tzijlstra]

But the difference i see between me and you is despite being able to earn more i still want to help people move up. Where as you look at poor people like scum just cos you do a PhD (not paying tax btw)

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 19:53 ----------

 

What you got to be so smug about ive no idea. Maybe get out of school and your ivory tower and contribute first before making judgements bout others

 

No you don't want to help people move up, you want them to sit at home because the minimum wage isn't enough. I want them to start work and get on with their lives because that is the only way up.

 

Your post is slanderous and very rude by the way, can you highlight ANY point where I said poor people were scum? Can you highlight where I said I don't pay tax? Can you point out where I judge anybody other than you?

 

I would appreciate it greatly if you edited your pathetic slur.

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 20:04 ----------

 

You dont work. Dont even pay taxes. Just another pompous keyboard jockey with an internet connection. Who you trying to fool?

 

Yeah, because doing a PhD is all about sitting at home eating out of your nose, retract your post.

 

No you're argument is factually wrong and weaker than a dead man in a corpse.

 

For starters JSA is around £3.500 a year and less than 3% of the whole welfare bill. In the whole scheme of things it isn't even negligible.

 

What Evil Lurks was Prodigy's first official release. Not Charlie.

 

Ensuring the creativity continues from people on the dole is crucial for our economy, it depends on artists.

 

Imagine the cost to the economy if just our music industry alone was almost wiped out, we are a nation full of artists, lets create spaces where these talent can flourish. Keep the dole for the sake of the economy.

 

Charlie was their big breakthrough track, creativity doesn't have to come from people on the dole, it certainly is by no means "crucial to the economy."

 

You are blowing hot air.

[gwhite78]

No you don't want to help people move up, you want them to sit at home because the minimum wage isn't enough. I want them to start work and get on with their lives because that is the only way up.

 

Your post is slanderous and very rude by the way, can you highlight ANY point where I said poor people were scum? Can you highlight where I said I don't pay tax? Can you point out where I judge anybody other than you?

 

I would appreciate it greatly if you edited your pathetic slur.

 

---------- Post added 14-02-2015 at 20:04 ----------

 

 

Yeah, because doing a PhD is all about sitting at home eating out of your nose, retract your post.

 

 

 

Charlie was their big breakthrough track, creativity doesn't have to come from people on the dole, it certainly is by no means "crucial to the economy."

 

You are blowing hot air.

 

The fact is the economy needs our creativity or the UK would be on its knees. £Billions and billions generated for the economy comes from creativity, and creativity often comes from folk on the dole. The list of classic albums created by people on the dole is astounding.

[tzijlstra]

The fact is the economy needs our creativity or the UK would be on its knees. £Billions and billions generated for the economy comes from creativity, and creativity often comes from folk on the dole. The list of classic albums created by people on the dole is astounding.

 

So the person designing Radley handbags is on the dole is he/she? Or the fella who designed the Jaguar F-Type? The architect who designed the gherkin?

 

You haven't answered Happ Hazard either, rather conveniently, if it is the case that UK artists are great because of the dole, how do American artists cope? But you are of course right, we should all go unemployed and develop our creativity.

 

Re. your earlier point of people on JSA only costing 3,5K a year - that would be the case if they didn't receive any other benefits. Add in the fact that they do not contribute in their own wages and 20K a year is a very conservative estimate.

[Lobos]

I think after 12 months on the dole it would probably start to become a way of life,the dole is supposed to be support for people in between finding work not a lifestyle,it would certainly weed out the type of people who just don't want to work. but the only kind of job they would end up with would be minimum wage so they would be claiming all sorts just to top the wage up,and probably just do the job for few months then back on the dole after.I think up to now most of the people who want to work have got jobs so we are down to the last hard core who just don't want work at any price.

[the_bloke]

Yes billions alone has come from artists such as UB40, The Prodigy, Oasis, Sex Pistols and Mike Oldfield. All their classic albums which generated billions and billions for UK economy was written whilst they was all on the dole. Stopping this creativity would be devastating for the economy.

 

The founding members of UB40 were a mix of apprentice toolmakers, apprentice electricians, carpet fitters and guys from other reggae sound systems. Only Norman Hassan is documented as being unemployed when he joined the band, having previously been a plasterer.

 

Liam Howlett of The Prodigy is well known for having jobs to pay for his first set of professional turntables, getting a degree in graphic design and graduated with a job at a magazine called Metropolitan, where he DJ'd as a second night job which he did until the Prodigy took off.

 

You might have some argument for Oasis, as far as I know Liam Gallagher was a bit of a dosser. Bonehead was a building contractor, Guigsy is a mystery as is Tony McCarroll and Noel was a builder before being a roadie and technician for the Inspiral Carpets.

 

John Lydon had a number of jobs in the building trade and even worked at a childrens play centre. Steve Jones spent most of his teenage years in a remand centre or playing in bands. Glen Matlock went to art school and was working in Malcolm Mclaren's shop when asked to join the Sex Pistols. I don't know if Paul Cook had a job before playing in bands.

 

Mike Oldfield was already making music before he had even finished school, having already been signed to Transatlantic Records aged 14.

 

So at what point were all these 'classic albums' written while on the dole? If they were on the dole at the time, it was simply a stop gap in between jobs, not some grand career choice. If dole at the time was means tested, it's unlikely guys like Oldfield would have even qualified for it.

[Anna B]

There is a whole demographic of men over 55 who have very little chance of being re-employed once they have lost their jobs.

They are at the mercy of younger men in their own line of work, too old to be considered for retraining, too unfit for physical jobs and often lose out to younger people for MacDonalds type jobs. Yet they have another 11 years to go before they can draw their old age pension.

 

Any suggestions?

[Dardandec]

Any suggestions?

 

Yes, carry on doing what they have always done unless them positions are now defunct or very hard to find. In my line of work the old timers if you want to call it that blind the youngsters and give them a good run for their money both in physical ability and experience and can practically do the job with their eyes shut. if they don't have their health then that Is a different story of course but I work with people who are well into their fifties and have no problems finding work. The "your on the scrapheap at fifty" is a myth in some jobs.