tzijlstra Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 In bold. You sure about that? ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 14:42 ---------- Try telling that to minimum wage shop workers. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 14:43 ---------- Or the government (tax payer) who has to subsidise low pay. LOL. Did you even remotely understand what I said? Wrong again. I suggest you look up 'umbrella company' on wikipedia. Thanks to a change in government legislation, it suits many companies to only recruit through agencies. And they're not just the McCompanies either. I am not "Wrong again". It suits some companies to recruit for short term jobs through "umbrella companies". You really ought to learn to accept that there is no black/white correct answer in all this. For some workers umbrella companies are ideal, it doesn't just provide the employers with flexibility but also the employees. A journalist friend of mine has managed to see the world thanks to flexible working through an agency, he took on short term contracts in interesting posts, earned enough to jet off to some exotic place, stayed there until his money ran out and got the next job lined up before jetting home. Than there is the effect of flexible working on employability, taking on different jobs means that people can build up a rich CV in a short time, making them more long-term employable than people who have been stuck behind the same desk/steering wheel etc. for years. Is it ideal for everybody? No of course not, but it is work and it pays money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I would like to know the detail too. What about a person with children, will there be a requirement to work after 2 years, how many hours? If they aren't looking for work then they shouldn't ever receive JSA... So children are irrelevant, either they are available for work and can receive JSA, or they aren't and can't. And if they refuse to take work after 2 years, well, they've had plenty of opportunity. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:24 ---------- Typical. How gullible and what a pitiful argument. Printing so called agency vacancies is hardly evidence, when it has long been exposed on various documentaries that agency jobs, even or especially jobs advertised in Jobcentre's, that a large proportion of such jobs advertised don't exist or have been filled or are just agency jobs replicated. Is that the best you can do? He provides evidence of work available right now, and it's not good enough for you. I've been speaking to agents all week about IT work, mostly in Leeds, there's plenty of work available. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:25 ---------- He's right there are hundreds of thousands of jobs available. But is there 2 million jobs available? There doesn't need to be. We aren't trying to achieve 100% employment. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:32 ---------- Someone I know works as a fully qualified electrician for 'Umbrella' companies - I'm not sure what this means, but I know he has to pay £25 to the agency every time he gets paid, for 'administration.' He often gets short changed with disputes over hours or agreed rates, but now, for the second time, he hasn't been paid at all. He's had enough. He's off to New Zealand. An umbrella company means that he doesn't have to do his own books or deal with any tax issues/legislation. It's normally a fairly safe way of working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 An umbrella company means that he doesn't have to do his own books or deal with any tax issues/legislation. It's normally a fairly safe way of working. Yep my son did that for about a year..got experience to add to his qualifications..got a well paid job in the South East..more power to his elbow..you get nothing for sitting on your bum and moaning about how unfair it all is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harrystottle Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Someone I know works as a fully qualified electrician for 'Umbrella' companies - I'm not sure what this means, but I know he has to pay £25 to the agency every time he gets paid, for 'administration.' He often gets short changed with disputes over hours or agreed rates, but now, for the second time, he hasn't been paid at all. He's had enough. He's off to New Zealand. Can't blame him. Yes, that's the other side of the coin. Many people in work aren't treated well. The workplace is a more stressful place than it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If they aren't looking for work then they shouldn't ever receive JSA... So children are irrelevant, either they are available for work and can receive JSA, or they aren't and can't. And if they refuse to take work after 2 years, well, they've had plenty of opportunity. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:24 ---------- He provides evidence of work available right now, and it's not good enough for you. I've been speaking to agents all week about IT work, mostly in Leeds, there's plenty of work available. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:25 ---------- There doesn't need to be. We aren't trying to achieve 100% employment. ---------- Post added 12-02-2015 at 15:32 ---------- An umbrella company means that he doesn't have to do his own books or deal with any tax issues/legislation. It's normally a fairly safe way of working. He's classed as self employed, so has to do his own books. He's worked this way for the last 3 years and had to travel the length and breadth of the country to stay continuously employed. He's also had to pay for his qualifications, renewals and upgrades to stay employed. He gets no holiday pay, sickness benefits or other perks, (not that he's had a holiday or been off sick,) nor does he often get expenses. He's just spent two weeks commuting daily to Scunthorpe because there was no living out expenses and no travel allowance, so in the end he was working for not much more than minimum wage, although he did car share. He also spent 3 bleak winter months at the back of beyond in the north of Scotland. This time he did get an allowance - enough to pay for the caravan he had to stay in, but no food or travel. This he was prepared to do but then he only got paid for 10 weeks instead of 12, which was the last straw. Not for the first time, has he not got paid. He's a very willing lad, hard working and very skilled, but he's had 3 years of continuous hassle, trying to deal with agencies, employers, and government agencies - almost a full time job in itself. As I said he's now emigrating, and I don't blame him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Good, if you read the rest of the thread you will find I did, so now the onus is on you to prove me wrong. Not holding my breath. The usefulness of a living wage is debatable. If everybody earns a living wage, than prices go up and the living wage will have to go up again. I am not sure where I stand on it, I agree that people should be appropriately rewarded for their efforts though. In the (short) list of links I provided there are thousands of vacancies within 40 miles of Sheffield, thus all commutable. For those prepared to relocate there are hundreds of thousands of jobs. I don't buy into the 'oh but they are agency jobs thus fake' argument either. When a company recruits through an agency it is usually because they've not managed to satisfactory fulfil their post through their own devices. Hiring an agency is expensive for an employer. That would then indicate that on top of the thousands of jobs that are with these agencies there are a lot more jobs that are advertised through different means. I have nearly finished my PhD and I am exploring the next options available to me. There are dozens of posts that I could go for and I am operating in a niche area. People I know that are lowly qualified have similar choice, even in the Netherlands, where unemployment is almost twice as high as it is here now, people that lose their job tend to find work within months. It is a case of WANTING to work. My aunt, a qualified care worker, lost her job, the whole care-system in the Netherlands is going down the pan so she was sure she wouldn't find another post, what, at 55 with no experience other than care and a raft of rubbish factory jobs. Took her two weeks to get a new job at a local hotel. Nothing glamorous, but she is delighted because the last thing she wants is to sit at home twiddling her thumbs all day. There is work, anybody who keeps denying it time after time has fallen for the self-defeating nonsense or is disingenuous. There's not thousands. Job sites duplicate and even triplicate jobs. Only way to tell for sure is to look through them every day and count the number of brand new jobs that get added. Oh, and each of those sites you listed will have almost identical job listing. As or the cost of living rising with wages, for every study you show me that says it does, I can show you one that says it doesn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 A job guarantee is a good thing. Stopping benefits for people though is a bad thing. We need to do away with means tests and sanctions. If we start denying people unemployment benefit all we as a society will end up doing is casting a large proportion of this lost generation onto benefits for even longer, they will all end up mental on sickness and disability benefits and it will cost the public purse more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotherham1 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 How is a job guarantee a good thing. Last thing a company need is a idiot who doesn't want to be there, don't care about the job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 As or the cost of living rising with wages, for every study you show me that says it does, I can show you one that says it doesn't! You can't... If we put up the wage for everyone, we create inflation and the cost of everything goes up. Basic economics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Yep my son did that for about a year..got experience to add to his qualifications..got a well paid job in the South East..more power to his elbow..you get nothing for sitting on your bum and moaning about how unfair it all is..Yep. Anyone with anything about them can get on and do well. Not sure where Anna is meeting all these people with tales of woe. Most of my mates are thick as two short planks and they do OK. Then there are all the right wingers on here that are all business masterminds earning a fortune. Strange place Sheffield Forum :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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