All cancer patients!!

[Plain Talker]

Just done a bit of googling and found I'm far from the only person who's extremely suspicious of vegetable oils/fats. Both these links pretty much sum up the reasons I think vegetable oils/fats could be very damaging for health.

 

Here's a youtube vid-

 

 

or, for those who prefer to read-

 

http://wellnessmama.com/2193/never-eat-vegetable-oil/

 

Fats in the diet are necessary for the functioning of the nerves. Without fats, the signals can't get through.

[onewheeldave]

That's full of FUD and also out of date regarding trans-fats.

 

In what respect (regarding trans fats)?

 

---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 08:45 ----------

 

Fats in the diet are necessary for the functioning of the nerves. Without fats, the signals can't get through.

 

No-ones saying otherwise.

 

However, vegetable oils are clearly not necessary, given that they've only existed for little over 200 years, and humanity has existed very happily over the vast majority of its time here without them (getting it's fat requirements from, for example, saturated fats from meat/animal produce).

 

And there are plenty of people on 80-10-10/vegan/fruitarian diets who clearly get all the fats they need from the low levels of fats naturally occuring in fruits/vegetables- without using vegetable oils (which those on 80-10-10 specifically avoid, as they believe them to be toxic).

[Cyclone]

Regarding trans-fats, it is correct that hydrolysis can create them. It's also been the case that about a decade ago we realised how harmful they could be and modified the industrial processes to eliminate them.

Hydrogenated oils do NOT contain trans-fats anymore.

 

Vegetable fats have existed as long as there have been vegetables, what changed in the last 200 years is that we started extracting them (and modifying).

[geared]

Like I mentioned before-

 

Here's Dr John Mcdougals take on Steve jobs cancer-

 

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

 

He's a doctor who knows about these things and he estimates 20+ years, and, goes into detail about how he came to that conclusion.

.

 

It's also based on guess work, anecdotal evidence, a mathematically perfect rate of growth and assumptions.

 

Obviously his cancer did not appear overnight as a sizeable mass, but to try and predict when it occurred, having never actually seen the mass yourself is just a waste of time.

 

He's seen one CAT scan, showing a shadow and estimated a size based on a visual assessment.

 

It's like taking a look at someones car tyres and making a stab at the number of miles they have done.

[onewheeldave]

It's also based on guess work, anecdotal evidence, a mathematically perfect rate of growth and assumptions.

 

Obviously his cancer did not appear overnight as a sizeable mass, but to try and predict when it occurred, having never actually seen the mass yourself is just a waste of time.

 

He's seen one CAT scan, showing a shadow and estimated a size based on a visual assessment.

 

It's like taking a look at someones car tyres and making a stab at the number of miles they have done.

 

Yes. Mr Mcdougal in the article was totally open- he's estimated the time scale and lists his assumptions/reasons.

 

He is, after all, a doctor- an expert in health, and, just like an expert on tyres could make a reasonable estimate of milage/conditions looking at a tyre, it seems reasonable that an expert in health could use their knowledge to come up with estimates as to tumor progression.

 

Certainly all the flak thrown at Jobs choice of diet is equally without actual evidence.

 

And any health expert claiming different estimates of the tumor progression is in the same boat in terms of actual evidence.

[Cyclone]

Presumably it's entirely normal to have such a cancer NOT be diagnosed until it reaches a certain size.

And the fact is that his "alternative" treatment regime failed, the cancer killed him.

A cancer that from what I understand, is actually fairly survivable, given a more normal treatment regime.

[onewheeldave]

Vegetable fats have existed as long as there have been vegetables, what changed in the last 200 years is that we started extracting them (and modifying).

 

Bizarre. And, a total strawman.

 

There's zero suggestion from me or enyone else that the fats in vegetables are problematic- they are in trace amounts and the human body has been consuming them through it's entire evolutionary history.

 

Extracting them and bunging out bottles of the stuff is far from trace amounts, as well as involving lots of toxic chemicals, plus of course, adding chemical deoderiser at the end to mask the horrific taste/smell.

 

Vegetable oil (i.e. the stuff from bottles put into virtually all processed foods these days, as opposed to vegetable fats (naturally occuring in trace amounts in plants) has appeared in the human 'food' supply only in the past 200 years- never, prior to that, did a human, or any animal, encounter vegetable oil.

 

Similarly, I tend when eating apples, to consume the core and pips. Those pips contain trace amounts of cyanide. I'm alive, healthy and well after eating many apple cores and pips.

 

If I took a swig from a bottle of cyanide extracted chemically from a large amount of pips, I suspect I wouldn't be doing so well

 

When you look at a bottle of vegetable oil, you're seeing highly condensed oil from several hundred kg of plants.

 

To consume anything close to the amount of fats you get from vegetable oil, by eating the plants with the trace amounts of vegetable fats in them, would be totally impossible.

[Plain Talker]

Bizarre. And, a total strawman.

 

There's zero suggestion from me or enyone else that the fats in vegetables are problematic- they are in trace amounts and the human body has been consuming them through it's entire evolutionary history.

 

Extracting them and bunging out bottles of the stuff is far from trace amounts, as well as involving lots of toxic chemicals, plus of course, adding chemical deoderiser at the end to mask the horrific taste/smell.

 

Vegetable oil (i.e. the stuff from bottles put into virtually all processed foods these days, as opposed to vegetable fats (naturally occuring in trace amounts in plants) has appeared in the human 'food' supply only in the past 200 years- never, prior to that, did a human, or any animal, encounter vegetable oil.

 

Similarly, I tend when eating apples, to consume the core and pips. Those pips contain trace amounts of cyanide. I'm alive, healthy and well after eating many apple cores and pips.

 

If I took a swig from a bottle of cyanide extracted chemically from a large amount of pips, I suspect I wouldn't be doing so well

 

When you look at a bottle of vegetable oil, you're seeing highly condensed oil from several hundred kg of plants.

 

To consume anything close to the amount of fats you get from vegetable oil, by eating the plants with the trace amounts of vegetable fats in them, would be totally impossible.

 

You'll have to tell me who, outside of the film "Lorenzo's Oil" takes in such amounts of pressed vegetable oils?

even the Mediterranean diet which encourages eating salads lightly drizzled with olive oil doesn't advocate eating huge amounts of vegetable oils.

 

However, I would take issue with your assertion that "vegetable oils have only been around in the last 200 years".

 

Olives were cultivated in the middle east, Palestine, Greece, Italy... etc for oil two thousand plus years ago.

 

Hydrolysing vegetable oil to make things like margarine was known from the late 18th century, as a butter substitute for Napoleon's troops when natural butter was scarce.

[onewheeldave]

You'll have to tell me who, outside of the film "Lorenzo's Oil" takes in such amounts of pressed vegetable oils?

even the Mediterranean diet which encourages eating salads lightly drizzled with olive oil doesn't advocate eating huge amounts of vegetable oils.

Anyone who eats a typical diet of processed food. Vegetable oils are added, in large amounts to breads, biscuits, cakes, crisps, packed ready meals etc, etc.

 

 

 

However, I would take issue with your assertion that "vegetable oils have only been around in the last 200 years".

 

Olives were cultivated in the middle east, Palestine, Greece, Italy... etc for oil two thousand plus years ago.

You're correct- I erred. Olive oil has been around longer than 200 years.

 

And, if I were to ever consume vegetable oil, cold pressed extra virgin olive oil would be my preference (obviously, olive oil extracted chemically would have the same issues as other veg oils).

 

Practically speaking though, anyone using the stuff should be aware of the 'counterfeit olive oil' issue, as it's estimated that over 50% of extra virgin olive oil is now fake, including, and, especially, the high quality brands.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=counterfeit+olive+oil&oq=counterfeit+olive+oil&aqs=chrome..69i57.5991j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

 

 

 

 

Hydrolysing vegetable oil to make things like margarine was known from the late 18th century, as a butter substitute for Napoleon's troops when natural butter was scarce.

It's only the last century where vegetable fats/oils have been consumed in the massive quantities we see today.

 

Due, in large part, to our medical systems demonisation of saturated fats (butter/lard etc) as 'unhealthy'.

 

Not only have many died (provenly) through being persuaded to consume deadly trans fats (now illegal in many countries and appearing much less in all foods, as they are now known to be toxic) that were common in margarines till recently, but many consume vegetable oils in place of butter etc.

 

Of course, 2 recent metastudies have concluded that there is no evidence that saturated fats are actually bad for health, so maybe expect a possible reversal of that advice over the coming decade.

 

It's interesting to note that, as the medical profession demonised saturated fats and the public followed the advice (and, to an extent, were forced to do so, as supermarkets took up the cause and made it difficult to find full fat versions of some foods, instead stocking the shelves with adulterated 'low fat' yoghurts/spreads and packing vegetable oils into produce previously made with butter) the heart disease/diabetes/chronic illnesses, far from taking the expected nose dive, actually increased to epidemic proportions.

 

Their epic rise matching the fall in butter/saturated fat consumption and rise in vegetable oils (the 'healthy fats').

 

Now correlation is not causation, and I'm not saying vegetable oils are the cause.

 

But, then again, I'm not going to wait decades for double blind scientific testing to clear or condemn- that system has been trying to establish whether saturated fats are deadly/ok/good for over a century now, and still has not decided (though many, many studies show such fats are bad, and many, amny other studies show the complete opposite).

 

Having concluded the orthodox medical testing system is corrupt and inept, I'll take note of the above correlation, plus a few common sense facts, such as, if a 'food' didn't exist for all but 200 years of human evolution, then, there's room for serious doubt that humans have evolved to be able to eat the stuff.

 

And my sincere advice to anyone worried about the state of our nations health, is to do the same.

 

If you want to use fats in your cooking, I recommend butter. I'm not saying it's good for you (though it may be), I really have no idea, no one does. But, humans have eaten it for millenia, including many populations far healthier (in terms of heart disease/cancer/diabetes) than ours.

 

I am actually pretty certain that, in small amounts, it'll do no harm (as with most food toxins, if the amounts are small, the body deals with it) and almost certainly far healthier than using bottled vegetable oils.

 

The main thing though, is eat real food- plants, fruits, vegetables, in their natural form. Avoid all processed 'foods' (supermarket ready meals etc. If you want to eat meat, buy real meat (personally I'd eat it in small quantities only).

 

Ready meals have contents sourced from, often, several different countries, mashed into gloop that's been sitting around and oxidising for who knows how long. Then it has various vegetable oils mixed in.

 

Given that we recently found that what we though was beef was actually horse meat, do we really trust the food industry to be honest with how long those bits of gloop have been in storeage, or how long the oils have been sat oxidising??

 

Whereas, when you buy a brocoli, a lettuce, a potato- you can much better see what you're getting.

 

Buy real food, eat it, be healthy.

Edited March 9, 2015 by onewheeldave

[geared]

It's more complicated than the replacement of normal fats with processed vegetable fats tho.

 

You mentioned low fat options as an example, but with alot of those the reduction of fat was countered by a massive increase in sugar.

 

because many people wouldn't eat the product as the fat provided a decent amount of the nice taste.