onewheeldave Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's more complicated than the replacement of normal fats with processed vegetable fats tho. You mentioned low fat options as an example, but with alot of those the reduction of fat was countered by a massive increase in sugar. because many people wouldn't eat the product as the fat provided a decent amount of the nice taste. I'm very aware that low fat 'foods' have sugar mixed in (as well as vegetable oils and a host of other dodgy ingredients). Hence why I've never eaten processed low fat 'foods'. If people want to eat such stuff, they should either, IMO, eat naturally low fat food (eg an apple, potato etc, etc), or, just eat the proper food full fat version of whatever they're after (eg, full fat yoghurt). But, that's a separate issue from the fact that vegetable oils are routinely put into processed 'food'. There are ways around some of it- for example, if anyone fancies a tasty biscuit but doesn't want them laced with vegetable oils, many brands of shortbread, unlike almost all other biscuits, are made with butter (do check the ingredients though, as even this traditional biscuit sometimes has veg oils substituted). For bread, you're stuffed, despite extensive research, as far as I can tell, no major brand in the supermarkets uses butter for it's fats- only various vegetable oils. (Anyone who knows different, do let me know). Though, for flatbreads/wraps, some of the wraps sold in asian stores use no oil/butter/fats whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Bizarre. And, a total strawman. Err no, pedantic maybe, but you claimed that vegetable oils didn't exist, something that clearly isn't true. There's zero suggestion from me or enyone else that the fats in vegetables are problematic- they are in trace amounts and the human body has been consuming them through it's entire evolutionary history. So the constant references to vegetables oils don't actually refer to vegetable oils at all then? Extracting them and bunging out bottles of the stuff is far from trace amounts, as well as involving lots of toxic chemicals, plus of course, adding chemical deoderiser at the end to mask the horrific taste/smell. Now you're making stuff up. They USE a chemical deoderiser. It isn't added and left in the product. Typical FUD tactic. Vegetable oil (i.e. the stuff from bottles put into virtually all processed foods these days, as opposed to vegetable fats (naturally occuring in trace amounts in plants) has appeared in the human 'food' supply only in the past 200 years- never, prior to that, did a human, or any animal, encounter vegetable oil. Vegetable oil is composed of fat extracted from the vegetable. To pretend that the two are not the same is just a silly linguistic game. Similarly, I tend when eating apples, to consume the core and pips. Those pips contain trace amounts of cyanide. I'm alive, healthy and well after eating many apple cores and pips. If I took a swig from a bottle of cyanide extracted chemically from a large amount of pips, I suspect I wouldn't be doing so well Cyanide is of course highly poisonous, vegetable fats are not. When you look at a bottle of vegetable oil, you're seeing highly condensed oil from several hundred kg of plants. To consume anything close to the amount of fats you get from vegetable oil, by eating the plants with the trace amounts of vegetable fats in them, would be totally impossible. Some vegetables are more fatty than others, olives for example. And the oil can be extracted by simply cold pressing them... ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 15:29 ---------- Of course non of this has anything to do with cancer, or why there is no cure being hidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Err no, pedantic maybe, but you claimed that vegetable oils didn't exist, something that clearly isn't true. No. I stated the fact that vegetable oil didn't exist, cos it didn't. How you think any human being capable of operating a keyboard could believe that vegetable oils, by which I'm assuming you mean the fats naturally occuring in plants, didn't exist, is astounding. ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 15:38 ---------- Cyanide is of course highly poisonous, vegetable fats are not. Cyanide in the quantities consumed in apple pips, clearly is not highly poisonous, as, otherwise, I'd have been poisoned. Extract it and condense it, and it's deadly. Vegetable fats in the quantities found in plants, clearly is not poisonous (as otherwise, lots of us would be dead). Extract them and condense them, and then you've got vegetable oil, which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, because, just cos somethings safe in trace amounts in it's natural place, doesn't mean it's not toxic when extracted and condensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) I contracted cancer of the larynx thirteen years ago. I went through six months of radiation treatment before being released from it. I stopped smoking and have been clear till this year when I have had a couple of hits with small skin cancers. With the help of a very professional and caring Dermatology group at the University of Connecticut I am doing fine with very little pain or interference with my usual activities. Unfortunately, not every treatment cures everyone hit by the scourge of cancer, but those of us who survive go out of our way to help others by showing them that it isn't always a death sentence. Edited March 9, 2015 by buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 No. I stated the fact that vegetable oil didn't exist, cos it didn't. Fat and oil are words used to describe the same things, oil is a subset of fat. How you think any human being capable of operating a keyboard could believe that vegetable oils, by which I'm assuming you mean the fats naturally occuring in plants, didn't exist, is astounding. Err, yes, well since that's what you seemed to be claiming, that's why I made the point. Cyanide in the quantities consumed in apple pips, clearly is not highly poisonous, as, otherwise, I'd have been poisoned. Errr, no, it's still highly poisonous, but you haven't consumed a dose large enough to hurt you. Extract it and condense it, and it's deadly. Not really. Vegetable fats in the quantities found in plants, clearly is not poisonous (as otherwise, lots of us would be dead). Everyone dies. Lots of people ARE dead who never consumed vegetable oil. Nobody has died (no evidence so far anyway) from consuming vegetable oil (or fat or whatever you want to call it). Extract them and condense them, and then you've got vegetable oil, which I wouldn't touch with a bargepole, because, just cos somethings safe in trace amounts in it's natural place, doesn't mean it's not toxic when extracted and condensed. This is true, but equally, it's not a truism. There are lots of things which you can extract and condense, and there no more harmful than before, and unless you have actual evidence, that includes vegetable oils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Fat and oil are words used to describe the same things, oil is a subset of fat. Err, yes, well since that's what you seemed to be claiming, that's why I made the point. Errr, no, it's still highly poisonous, but you haven't consumed a dose large enough to hurt you. Not really. Everyone dies. Lots of people ARE dead who never consumed vegetable oil. Nobody has died (no evidence so far anyway) from consuming vegetable oil (or fat or whatever you want to call it). This is true, but equally, it's not a truism. There are lots of things which you can extract and condense, and there no more harmful than before, and unless you have actual evidence, that includes vegetable oils. Just briefly- the distinction is that of 1. vegetable oils (or vegetable fats) and 2. vegetable oil. Very different things: one comes in plants (vegetable fats are naturally occuring in trace amounts in all plants throughout all of history), the other is found in bottles. Vegetable oil is new to the last 200 years (with the exception of cold pressed olive oil) and its use in the human food chain has gone from zero to the current situation where it's in pretty much all processed 'foods'. If you believe it's not harmful and you're happy to eat an industrial product that requires extensive chemical deoderization to make it eatable without retching, then great I'll stick to real food, that's mainly been in the human food chain for much of human evolution, or at least for several thousand years (in the case of the relative newbies like legumes, grains etc). And, regardless of whether you like it or not, I'll continue to recommend others do the same. And if, or, more likely when, the nutritional science system catches up and starts telling us that actually, vegetable oils are pretty dodgy (just as it 'discovered' trans fats were, after decades of urging us to eat them), then maybe you'll be glad I did. Edited March 9, 2015 by onewheeldave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Just in case no-one has posted yet ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:03 ---------- 30% of lab mice were completely cured. Remaining mice had a significant reduction in the volume and size of the tumours ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:04 ---------- "Instead of spending 600 dollars a month for pharmaceuticals, I can just grow my own Cannabis plants" ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:06 ---------- Just sayin Edited March 9, 2015 by Solomon1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Just in case no-one has posted yet ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:03 ---------- 30% of lab mice were completely cured. Remaining mice had a significant reduction in the volume and size of the tumours ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:04 ---------- "Instead of spending 600 dollars a month for pharmaceuticals, I can just grow my own Cannabis plants" ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 20:06 ---------- Just sayin Illegal drugs?! OMG, won't you perleeeease think of the children!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon1 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Illegal drugs?! OMG, won't you perleeeease think of the children!! Not illegal for much longer, given what's happening across the pond ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 21:43 ---------- Has anyone mentioned the diet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Not illegal for much longer, given what's happening across the pond I think only a Lab/Cons coalition would do this. It's the only way that the naysayers won't have a choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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