carosio Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Don't misunderstand. I'm not critising and it's clear people play the system from the bottom to the top. Its unfair that the poor are targeted by these programs when loads of people at all levels are gaming the system. There's probably quite a narrow band of earners who don't get any opportunity to do the same. The rest are propped up by the state either through benefits, or lax regulations that turn a blind eye to all kinds of scams at the higher end. Not yourself, I really was making a general comment, but when we say "some don't get the opportunity to do the same", do we really mean that they should be afforded the same opportunities as those that we criticise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 The one I'm waiting for is the 'middle class, on benefits and pretending not to be' programme. All the producers have to do is look at Mumsnet to see them all helping each other out with tips and tricks. This time of year is interesting as they post about anxiously waiting for the tax credits application to pop through the door, or to find out how much they'll get, or they fret because they realise they are getting investigated by HMRC. The trouble with the middle class is they are happy to criticise the working class on benefits, but for some reason don't class themselves as being on benefits because they are on Tax credits, and don't class that as part of the benefits culture. Maybe it's the nice sounding name of tax credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Not yourself, I really was making a general comment, but when we say "some don't get the opportunity to do the same", do we really mean that they should be afforded the same opportunities as those that we criticise? Maybe I should have qualified the point. What I'm saying is that there is a narrow band of middle income families who follow a path that means they are locked into PAYE, who don't qualify for benefits of tax credits etc.. But they kind of do get the same chances to take advantage of the system by downsizing their employment, going 'self-employed' etc... Seen plenty of posts on various forums of people doing exactly that. Thankfully that narrow band in the middle keep plugging away in sufficient numbers though. In terms of encourage more to do the same it's a case of removing perverse incentives in the system, and of stopping those at the top directing attention away from themselves by constantly beating up on the poor. ---------- Post added 21-06-2015 at 14:36 ---------- The trouble with the middle class is they are happy to criticise the working class on benefits, but for some reason don't class themselves as being on benefits because they are on Tax credits, and don't class that as part of the benefits culture. Maybe it's the nice sounding name of tax credits. Totally agree. They've got a shock coming because that £12bn cut to benefits means them too. Wonder how many right wingers on here are on tax credits themselves, clients of the welfare state too, but never made the connection. Most of them I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annbaker Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Maybe I should have qualified the point. What I'm saying is that there is a narrow band of middle income families who follow a path that means they are locked into PAYE, who don't qualify for benefits of tax credits etc.. That'd be me. Other than signing on for 2 weeks the year I left Uni and receiving child benefit I have had hee haw from the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Tax credits are ridiculous to start with. Why not just lower tax, instead of taxing people then giving some of it back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 Tax credits are ridiculous to start with. Why not just lower tax, instead of taxing people then giving some of it back? Good point, however, the tax credits departments creates many jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If only there was a organisation, voted for by the public who pass laws and things who could do something about it. Don't worry mate. George Osborne is going to tackle the tax dodgers. He said so before the election, so he can't go back on his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good point, however, the tax credits departments creates many jobs. Indeed. Public sector jobs, which help swell Union and therefore Labour Party membership. That's a happy coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annbaker Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Good point, however, the tax credits departments creates many jobs. Why not pay people a decent wage so they're not required at all ? And then use the spare HMRC staff to chase up big tax defaulters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Why not pay people a decent wage so they're not required at all ? Define decent wage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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