max Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 In the context of the thread I would have thought it very relevant... never mind.. again Shims is correct in that the vast majority of motorists pay to use the roads.. I'm not sure how anyone can say that's incorrect.. The vast majority of motorists pay VED due to the emissions of their vehicles. However, ALL tax payers pay for the roads irrespective of whether or not they have a motorised vehicle. In Sheffield there are 40% of households who do not have access to a private vehicle, is it right that they should subsidise motorists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 In Sheffield there are 40% of households who do not have access to a private vehicle, is it right that they should subsidise motorists? What do buses and taxis travel on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyR Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Just throwing up a random biased web page doesn't mean you are correct.. That page says it's a tax on cars..it isn't.. as I've shown above...it's a tax on using your car on the road.. Here's some more websites biased or otherwise: http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/vehicle-excise-duty "Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) is an annual tax on the ownership of road vehicles" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438 "This is a tax on cars, not roads, and it goes straight into the general Treasury fund" http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html A vehicle registered in the UK must be taxed if it is used or kept on a public road. i.e. the tax gives the right to use the car not the road (the right to use the road is available to all for free) http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/nov/22/cycling-road-tax-confused "the link between the annual vehicle tax paid by drivers and the money used to build and maintain roads was abolished in 1937" The tax does not buy you the right to use the road the tax buys you the right use your vehicle. I as a cyclist do not have to pay VED but I still have the right to use the road. You even say it, its tax on using your car on the road - not a tax giving a right to use the road - if that were the case then I couldn't ride my bike on the road but I CAN! ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 14:46 ---------- The vast majority of motorists pay VED due to the emissions of their vehicles. Roads are absolutely not just there for people in cars - despite the beliefs of a large number of such motorists. However, ALL tax payers pay for the roads irrespective of whether or not they have a motorised vehicle. In Sheffield there are 40% of households who do not have access to a private vehicle, is it right that they should subsidise motorists? They pay for the roads that are vital for our economy, for the delivery of goods on which all are dependent, for the emergency services, buses, taxis and so on. The roads are absolutely not just there for "motorists". Edited March 6, 2015 by TimmyR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antics^^ Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 You're trying to build a strawman here...if you want a stupid circular argument look for someone else... ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 12:13 ---------- Can I use my "polluting vehicle" on the roads without paying...? I can own as many cars as I want without paying VED,so it isn't an "ownership tax" ..I can run them on a track without paying VED so it's not a "use" tax as such..the only time I have to pay is when they go on the road.. so if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... My car's first year rate VED is £485.00. But as it's a leased car the lease company pay for that, I don't pay a penny. Am I allowed to use the road? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Wrong. If that's the case why is it different levels for different cars? Why is it zero for some cars? It's a tax on emissions, that's why. How can it be? I can use my car on a track and not pay any VED.... still has the same emissions as when it's on the road..also when it's parked up there are no emissions,but if it's on the road then VED must be paid.. ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 14:58 ---------- Here's some more websites biased or otherwise: http://www.politics.co.uk/reference/vehicle-excise-duty "Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) is an annual tax on the ownership of road vehicles" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23694438 "This is a tax on cars, not roads, and it goes straight into the general Treasury fund" http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html A vehicle registered in the UK must be taxed if it is used or kept on a public road. i.e. the tax gives the right to use the car not the road (the right to use the road is available to all for free) http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/nov/22/cycling-road-tax-confused "the link between the annual vehicle tax paid by drivers and the money used to build and maintain roads was abolished in 1937" The tax does not buy you the right to use the road the tax buys you the right use your vehicle. I as a cyclist do not have to pay VED but I still have the right to use the road. You even say it, its tax on using your car on the road - not a tax giving a right to use the road - if that were the case then I couldn't ride my bike on the road but I CAN! ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 14:46 ---------- They pay for the roads that are vital for our economy, for the delivery of goods on which all are dependent, for the emergency services, buses, taxis and so on. The roads are absolutely not just there for "motorists". I haven't said the roads are just there for motorists.. there's that strawman again..at least you agree it's a tax to use the car on the road..I haven't once said it's to pay for the roads.. ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 14:59 ---------- [/color] My car's first year rate VED is £485.00. But as it's a leased car the lease company pay for that, I don't pay a penny. Am I allowed to use the road? It'll be factored into the lease...so you are paying (or your company is) ---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 15:02 ---------- The vast majority of motorists pay VED due to the emissions of their vehicles. However, ALL tax payers pay for the roads irrespective of whether or not they have a motorised vehicle. In Sheffield there are 40% of households who do not have access to a private vehicle, is it right that they should subsidise motorists? Are you saying the non car owning public don't gain anything from there being roads? Edited March 6, 2015 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyR Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I haven't said the roads are just there for motorists.. there's that strawman again..at least you agree it's a tax to use the car on the road..I haven't once said it's to pay for the roads.. Just what exactly are getting involved with this discussion for? Its a discussion about cycling. Moronic cycle haters often state the perceived non payment of the non existent road tax as a reason for hating cyclists or worse as a reason for antagonising or even threatening cyclists. the evident belief being that they have more right to use the road than the cyclist. Do you have anything constructive to add to that discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) Just what exactly are getting involved with this discussion for? Its a discussion about cycling. Moronic cycle haters often state the perceived non payment of the non existent road tax as a reason for hating cyclists or worse as a reason for antagonising or even threatening cyclists. the evident belief being that they have more right to use the road than the cyclist. Do you have anything constructive to add to that argument? My first post on here was to AdamF..you stuck your oar in from then on.. saying that I was paying for the right to use the vehicle,not the road.. Do you now agree that motorists have to pay to use the road..? Edited March 6, 2015 by truman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordius Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Nobody pays to use the road. Is it that hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 ............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyR Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 My first post on here was to AdamF..you stuck your oar in from then on.. saying that I was paying for the right to use the vehicle,not the road.. Do you now agree that motorists have to pay to use the road..? No I don't agree. People have to pay to use their polluting motor vehicles on the road. No one has to pay to use the road explicitly - the roads are provided for use for all for free. I have car that I pay to use on the road. I also have a bike that I don't pay to use on the road. The reason this is such a hotly debated topic is because people use the road tax argument as an excuse for antagonising cyclists. And that is why your pointless arguing is getting on my nerves - you don't even seem to agree with the views of shims who started the whole discussion in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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