Work ethics and todays youth

[Anna B]

They can't get rid of permanent staff on contracted hours at a whim. Anything to the contrary is flat out horse ****, and if you know anyone that that has happened to tell them to go to an employment tribunal and they will win very easily.

 

Don't know if you've read previous comments, but as I thought, it seems you do have to have worked two years on a permanent contract to have any rights to an employment tribunal. (I believe it was one of the Tories 'employment reforms', so we could have a 'flexible' workforce.) And as most of the people who have this problem haven't, they have absolutely no form of redress no matter how unfair. So employers can indeed get rid of them on a 'whim.'

Edited March 5, 2015 by Anna B

[tinfoilhat]

Don't know if you've read previous comments, but as I thought, it seems you do have to have worked two years on a permanent contract to have any rights to an employment tribunal. (I believe it was one of the Tories 'employment reforms', so we could have a 'flexible' workforce.) And as most of the people who have this problem haven't, they have absolutely no form of redress no matter how unfair. So employers can indeed get rid of them on a 'whim.'

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 00:04 ----------

 

 

Don't know if you've read previous comments, but as I thought, it seems you do have to have worked two years on a permanent contract to have any rights to an employment tribunal. (I believe it was one of the Tories 'employment reforms', so we could have a 'flexible' workforce.) And as most of the people who have this problem haven't, they have absolutely no form of redress no matter how unfair. So employers can indeed get rid of them on a 'whim.' In fact it gives employers a good reason to sack a worker just because they've worked at a place for 1 year 11months.

 

I think if you were let go after 1 year and 11 months for no good reason you'd possibly have a case for constructive dismissal. Citizens advice say two years then sort of alludes to a month further in. Fsb said a year to a friend of mine.

 

But they clearly can't get rid of staff who have worked for more than two years on a whim. You've just said so.

[*_ash_*]

So would it be better if employers could offer £2 an hour?

 

Did I say that?

 

You know exactly what would happen. All those local people currently on £6.50 an hour would be replaced by Polish and Lithuanian workers then there would be people posting on here bemoaning the fact that Johnny Foreigner was stealing all our jobs, followed by one of the usual suspects saying that the reason they are doing that is because benefits pay more than work, followed by an inevitable reduction in benefits.

 

This wasn't the case before NMW was it? I never ever saw that happen until NMW and later anyone in EU free-access to come here. It might happen if they took it away now though, i.e. ill-thought out. Much like tax-credits etc.

 

A race to the bottom in other words. Why would you want that? Is your job that secure that if someone could do the job for a third of the pay you'd still be employed?

 

Bold: I never said I wanted that. You have taken some points that I didn't state, then created your own conclusion which is nonsense.

 

I don't take job security as being 'job for life', I'm not stupid. When Uber come to Sheffield next month, I could be potentially out of work very quickly (and I'm making preparations for it). If that happens I'll find something else, I always have, and have never been out of work for more than a few days. I work in jobs way under my capabilities, but that is my choice. I would find a job in a week, agency if necessary. At the last agency I worked with, they give you tests before they take you on, and I didn't get a single question wrong (which the woman said no one has ever done), and I had non-stop offers of work. I'll just do the same again - won't be as much money but I'll re-budget and get by and do a few jobs on the side to get by.

 

So employers can indeed get rid of them on a 'whim.'

 

Has it ever occurred to you why an employer wants to get rid? It's because they're no good in most cases. Of course there might be a few cases where personal issues come into it and unfair dismissal can be sought. In general, companies don't want to lose staff that do their job well and turn up on time.

[facom1]

Did I say that?

 

 

 

This wasn't the case before NMW was it? I never ever saw that happen until NMW and later anyone in EU free-access to come here. It might happen if they took it away now though, i.e. ill-thought out. Much like tax-credits etc.

 

 

 

Bold: I never said I wanted that. You have taken some points that I didn't state, then created your own conclusion which is nonsense.

 

I don't take job security as being 'job for life', I'm not stupid. When Uber come to Sheffield next month, I could be potentially out of work very quickly (and I'm making preparations for it). If that happens I'll find something else, I always have, and have never been out of work for more than a few days. I work in jobs way under my capabilities, but that is my choice. I would find a job in a week, agency if necessary. At the last agency I worked with, they give you tests before they take you on, and I didn't get a single question wrong (which the woman said no one has ever done), and I had non-stop offers of work. I'll just do the same again - won't be as much money but I'll re-budget and get by and do a few jobs on the side to get by.

 

 

 

Has it ever occurred to you why an employer wants to get rid? It's because they're no good in most cases. Of course there might be a few cases where personal issues come into it and unfair dismissal can be sought. In general, companies don't want to lose staff that do their job well and turn up on time.

 

********. It is the case of agencies loosing a work placement and terminating good workers. Unfair dismissal cannot come into it as the placement is not at root cause.

 

This country would be in a better place if job agencies where outlawed.

[Anna B]

Did I say that?

 

 

 

This wasn't the case before NMW was it? I never ever saw that happen until NMW and later anyone in EU free-access to come here. It might happen if they took it away now though, i.e. ill-thought out. Much like tax-credits etc.

 

 

 

Bold: I never said I wanted that. You have taken some points that I didn't state, then created your own conclusion which is nonsense.

 

I don't take job security as being 'job for life', I'm not stupid. When Uber come to Sheffield next month, I could be potentially out of work very quickly (and I'm making preparations for it). If that happens I'll find something else, I always have, and have never been out of work for more than a few days. I work in jobs way under my capabilities, but that is my choice. I would find a job in a week, agency if necessary. At the last agency I worked with, they give you tests before they take you on, and I didn't get a single question wrong (which the woman said no one has ever done), and I had non-stop offers of work. I'll just do the same again - won't be as much money but I'll re-budget and get by and do a few jobs on the side to get by.

 

 

 

Has it ever occurred to you why an employer wants to get rid? It's because they're no good in most cases. Of course there might be a few cases where personal issues come into it and unfair dismissal can be sought. In general, companies don't want to lose staff that do their job well and turn up on time.

 

Does it occur to you that permanent jobs might also become a thing of the past?

There's nothing that I can see to stop an employer sacking someone before the two year deadline and then making him apply for his job again, (in fact I'm sure I've heard of that happening on this forum.) That way the employer has no difficulty with tribunals etc. It's not always to do with the quality of the labour.

I admit in skilled jobs that require a lot of training and experience, that's less likely to happen, but much of the abuse is at the lower end of the jobs market where they seem to take the brunt of every ****ty trick going.

 

What sort of jobs do you do?

[*_ash_*]

********. It is the case of agencies loosing a work placement and terminating good workers. Unfair dismissal cannot come into it as the placement is not at root cause.

 

again?

 

I answered a few points, can you be clearer to what you are quoting?

 

This country would be in a better place if job agencies where outlawed.

 

Doesn't matter to me if they are or not. If they were 'outlawed', then word of mouth would probably come more into play (and I have many references for my hard work, and time-keeping and no sick days).

 

I would just go there because I need income to pay my mortgage. In the past I just found it the quickest way to get temp work whilst in between longer-term jobs. Job centres I found useless and laborious with little gain, so I would prefer if they were there.

 

I worked for years on leakage detection for Yorkshire Water, and though obviously I didn't get as much money as the YW workers, they were all miserable and constantly arguing over everything with unions. I just got on with it (though I had to work very slowly to as not embarrass their own staff), in fact same at BT (3 years ish working for them), and BG (2 years for them). Apart from the engineers at BG (who I had and have a lot of respect for) most staff were useless. I wouldn't have employed them if I owned my own business.

[facom1]

People do not have enthusiasm to work anymore for more than a guaranteed 40+ hour work deal..Why should they? It is how I was brought up. I was NOT brought up to sign up for a 0 hour work placement. I do not want temp work, I require full time employment, yet due to agencies there is little opportunity for this. An agency takes over 1 job roll and says we can't get you a full time person but we can get you 10 to fill your shifts. An agency makes any money plus £6.50 an hour a monthly sum and that's per person. Normally at a rate of 20% wages.

 

That's the rate they pay the agency, then agency deducts monies. Look it is a severe con and needs banning.

 

The job market vacancies where filled without these criminal organisations before agencies, why not now? AGENCIES ARE CROOKED.

[*_ash_*]

Does it occur to you that permanent jobs might also become a thing of the past?

 

It's never occurred or crossed my mind that ANY job is permanent.

 

In fact I only know the basics on my current contract, I see it as a worthless piece of nonsense written by companies who my employer pays to write up. It doesn't bother me, it never has. I just do what I'm paid to do, and I try to do the best I can for the people paying my wage.

 

I've only disgraced myself once by quitting a job with no notice, and it was awful. I won't name them as they are based in Sheffield. I absolutely hated it, yet others found it a good place to work, so it must have been personal preference in that one occasion Anna.

 

There's nothing that I can see to stop an employer sacking someone before the two year deadline and then making him apply for his job again, (in fact I'm sure I've heard of that happening on this forum.)

 

That's pretty much what I think I'm on. So what? I do a good job, I'm never late for work, and had one sick day in 10 years or so. I was one of the best people in Sheffield at my job (was!, I've got a new position now, but use this knowledge to try and train others). That's my current 'security', but times change. Machines/robots/technology do many of the jobs I had in the past. Computer programmes are constantly being written and updated that try and push out my job. I can't stop that. I've accepted it.

 

 

That way the employer has no difficulty with tribunals etc. It's not always to do with the quality of the labour.

 

Here I think we disagree Anna. Employers (private) and bosses (public) want good staff. That makes sense.

 

 

What sort of jobs do you do?

 

I'll answer this in PM and though we disagree on many things, I won't mention companies on the forum main pages, and I trust you to respect this

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 02:10 ----------

 

People do not have enthusiasm to work anymore for more than a guaranteed 40+ hour work deal..Why should they? It is how I was brought up. I was NOT brought up to sign up for a 0 hour work placement. I do not want temp work, I require full time employment, yet due to agencies there is little opportunity for this. An agency takes over 1 job roll and says we can't get you a full time person but we can get you 10 to fill your shifts. An agency makes any money plus £6.50 an hour a monthly sum and that's per person. Normally at a rate of 20% wages.

 

That's the rate they pay the agency, then agency deducts monies. Look it is a severe con and needs banning.

 

The job market vacancies where filled without these criminal organisations before agencies, why not now? AGENCIES ARE CROOKED.

 

If I ran a business, I wouldn't employ you.

[facom1]

It's never occurred or crossed my mind that ANY job is permanent.

 

In fact I only know the basics on my current contract, I see it as a worthless piece of nonsense written by companies who my employer pays to write up. It doesn't bother me, it never has. I just do what I'm paid to do, and I try to do the best I can for the people paying my wage.

 

I've only disgraced myself once by quitting a job with no notice, and it was awful. I won't name them as they are based in Sheffield. I absolutely hated it, yet others found it a good place to work, so it must have been personal preference in that one occasion Anna.

 

 

 

That's pretty much what I think I'm on. So what? I do a good job, I'm never late for work, and had one sick day in 10 years or so. I was one of the best people in Sheffield at my job (was!, I've got a new position now, but use this knowledge to try and train others). That's my current 'security', but times change. Machines/robots/technology do many of the jobs I had in the past. Computer programmes are constantly being written and updated that try and push out my job. I can't stop that. I've accepted it.

 

 

 

 

Here I think we disagree Anna. Employers (private) and bosses (public) want good staff. That makes sense.

 

 

 

 

I'll answer this in PM and though we disagree on many things, I won't mention companies on the forum main pages, and I trust you to respect this

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 02:10 ----------

 

 

If I ran a business, I wouldn't employ you.

 

If I was part of the government that allowed businesses to thrive. I would terminate you before initial converse..to be honest.

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 02:52 ----------

 

ASH you seem like the typical **** that this country detests.

Edited March 5, 2015 by facom1

[*_ash_*]

If I was part of the government that allowed businesses to thrive. I would terminate you before initial converse..to be honest.

 

---------- Post added 05-03-2015 at 02:52 ----------

 

ASH you seem like the typical **** that this country detests.

 

Thank you, on both counts

 

 

 

Not enough time to reply before forum goes to sleep. Will respond tomorrow night.