Cyclone Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 2 seconds at 70mph always feels like a huge gap to me. More than I would adopt and feel safe (and have visibility past the vehicle in front). Interesting that you mention visibility though. If I'm behind a van or maybe an SUV I can't see past/through, I naturally drive further back. ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 09:57 ---------- So are you agreeing that a focus on speed as the only measure of road safety is a short sighted approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 2 seconds at 70mph always feels like a huge gap to me. More than I would adopt and feel safe (and have visibility past the vehicle in front). Interesting that you mention visibility though. If I'm behind a van or maybe an SUV I can't see past/through, I naturally drive further back. ---------- Post added 09-03-2015 at 09:57 ---------- So are you agreeing that a focus on speed as the only measure of road safety is a short sighted approach? If it the only intervention, yes. But it isn't the only intervention that the authorities get involved in. It is the only one that many focus on since cameras are very visible (to some anyway). Speed, absolute, relative, legal/illegal, appropriate/inappropriate is only one side of the equation. Space retention is, for me, more important. I'd recommend you take a good two-second gap, more at high speed and certainly more when your vision ahead is blocked. Taking less could end up with you copying the pace and space of those ahead. Break the pattern, do you own thing and avoid any hint of a "follow-the-leader" hypnosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's the single intervention that they focus on the most. Almost to the point of excluding everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 It's the single intervention that they focus on the most. Almost to the point of excluding everything else. Oh well, we must agree to ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stimpy Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 No, there is no comparison at all. In the Netherlands they are set to go off with hardly any tolerance (Dutch law dictates that the allowed error margin is 10% wrong upwards, ie, if you are doing 33 km/h in a 30 km/h zone you WILL be ticketed, same for 55 in a 50 zone and so on. That might seem like a big margin to British people used to miles, but that translates to 22 in a 20 mp/h zone (of which there are hundreds and hundreds of miles in the Netherlands) and 33 on a 30 mp/h road. The margin is incredibly small, add to that the fact that they have equipment that is completely hidden AND placed so that it covers areas where they are likely to catch people out, rather than areas where it aids safety and you have a healthy profit-making machine. Recently they trialled a set of practically invisible digital cameras that cover the motorway from the back of an overpass, you literally do not know it is coming, no warning or anything and they move them from overpass to overpass, the maximum speed you are allowed to go too fast is 7 km/h in any circumstance, so at 127 km/h on the motorway (where 120 is allowed) you get done. Again, that equates to doing 74-75 mp/h on the motorway, it would catch loads of people out here. sounds like Australia. Usually a copper sat, hidden though. Saw one office hiding behind a street lamp on the brow of a hill with his radar gun so you couldnt see him. Dont get me wrong, I speed as I drive to the conditions at the time. I have been caught, I took it on the chin as I know full well what I was doing. The only one I agree on here is the 40kph limit enforced around schools... a very good idea that one. The issue I have is people spend to much time looking at their speedo instead of the road in front of them. I was following a car on the freeway at the speedlimit, when I spotted a highway patrol in the distance, the car in front didnt alter their speed until they were next to the traffic cop and hit the brakes, in the fast lane... sorry, overtaking lane, all because they panicked! I have seen people brake for cop car that didnt even have anyone in it... all whilst still being under the speed limit and because of the fear the GovCo have put into people via anti hoon propaganda. Add into the mix various speeds of drivers on the roads due to P plate restrictions and driving over here becomes a very interesting concept. There needs to be better, ongoing education for drivers before anything will change... until then, the motorist is just an easy target to reach targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) M It's the single intervention that they focus on the most. Almost to the point of excluding everything else. Crashes, injury and death don't just come as a result of illegal or inappropriate speed. At junctions, SMIDSY, "injudicious action", overtaking all play a part. So interventions here put in during the era of the camera have clearly not been noticed: - road and lane narrowing, road positioning alterations (and improvement in lines of vision) allowed by "bike lanes", hatchings, bollards - pedestrian movements restricted by railings, light-controlled crossings with increasing sophistication (Puffins - unheard of and unnoticed by many) - traffic light sequencing and timings altered, forward (bike) holding area to remove lead car 1 metre plus from a red light running risk - high-level stop lights to improve drivers' lines of vision at major junctions (history of rear-ends) - vision lines at crash-prone roundabouts shut down by fence panels, battleship-grey panels (Bowshaw, J29 M1 yuck) - road surfacing (including very expensive Shellgrip) at troublesome junctions, bends, descents - signage and road paint put down reactively to mark crash sites - vehicle-activated signage to mark (reactively) crash-prone junctions, bends - the humble speed cushion with built-out pavements to give pedestrian better lines of vision and to calm traffic down by a chicane effect (can be "Sport", though). - there will be others that come to mind ... Anyone with a "it's nothing but scameras" agenda is missing quite a lot of interventions, in my mind, and missing opportunities to avoid making the same mistakes as others. Contrast "eyes wide shut" and "driving to the conditions". Edited March 10, 2015 by DT Ralge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Modifying the physical structure of the road is an "intervention", but it's not something new, so why spend ANY time/money on a speed camera, when focussing on this kind of intervention could actually be more beneficial. The single most risky thing to do on the roads is a right turn across traffic, right? So what interventions can be made to make that safer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) Modifying the physical structure of the road is an "intervention", but it's not something new, so why spend ANY time/money on a speed camera, when focussing on this kind of intervention could actually be more beneficial. The single most risky thing to do on the roads is a right turn across traffic, right? So what interventions can be made to make that safer? If the problem is sight lines, hidden vehicles preparing to turn right, a camera is not the required intervention. But warning triangles, often with additional, expensive high-viz yellow backing, SLOW (speed low, Observe Warnings) painted on the road, bollards and hatchlings protecting the right turn "box", red painted (blood = red) areas are the more fitting and relevant interventions, These interventions are, indeed, nothing new. Neither are cameras. "Away with the fairies" drivers miss/ignore both. Spotting cameras, but not speed limits and definitely not all these other interventions tells us something about the unhealthily subliminal nature of driving for many. If sight lines is not particularly the issue, reducing the speed limit (and the prevailing speed) at an open junction makes SMIDSY and poor judgment less troublesome and the next crash, the logic goes, less likely and/or less impact-full. Edited March 10, 2015 by DT Ralge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Modifying the physical structure of the road is an "intervention", but it's not something new, so why spend ANY time/money on a speed camera, when focussing on this kind of intervention could actually be more beneficial. The single most risky thing to do on the roads is a right turn across traffic, right? So what interventions can be made to make that safer? I get the impression that it's cost more than anything. The road design wasn't correct the first time, probably due to cost, space limitations or it not being an issue at the time. Now it's quite expensive to do the job right, so sticking a camera in sort of does something for the problem, but also costs a whole lot less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Try driving in the Netherlands for a month without getting a fine. Over there it is an extra-tax machine, nothing less, nothing more. I seemed to manage OK.... There are big signs on the roads. Red edges with numbers in side. Match the number to the same number printed on the speedo thingy. It's not especially difficult. Now average speed cameras that spy on your movements are another evil entirely but not because of their speed enforcing powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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