"First Buses do WHAT??"

[woodmally]

But it would help if the driver was actually willinig to stop for people who dont happen to look!!

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 11:01 ----------

 

 

So as long as the bus doesnt bump as it drives over a pedestiran its OK?

 

Do bus drivers get extra points like in death race 2000?

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 11:03 ----------

 

 

It sounds like if there HAD been a crossing there it wouldnt have made any difference as it would have still have needed him to stop

 

I posted that before I checked my facts (sorry) there are two crossings either side. And like me (I'm just as guilty) the old woman didnt use either of them. Yes it might not have made a difference, we just dont know, however its safer to cross at a crossing than not. Had she have crossed at the crossing of Primarni she might still be alive now as the bus would stop way before the tracks.

[vizzbucks]

It also says he failed to swerve to avoid hitting her. There is no room to swerve, the road is at it's narrowest where the collision happened, and swerving would have resulted on him mounting the curb which would have resulted in him hitting people on the pavement, as it's always occupied by passengers waiting to crossing the road at that time.

 

I'm not condoning him hitting the lady, but he wasn't totally to blame. The lady walked out without looking right in front of a bus.

 

The Drive Green issue has been blown out of proportion by the newspapers, It will have been mentioned in court that there is such a scheme, and the newspapers have picked up on it making it the major factor in the story.

 

I know the driver, have known him for a few years, and he would have avoided hitting the lady if he could have.

 

By reading some of the replies in this thread, it seems like some people think he just ran her over so he could get a chance of winning the prize, then these people are fools, no bus driver would do that.

[WageSlave]

I've read that the bus was travelling at 14mph, the old lady was in the last 2 meters of crossing the road and the driver failed to swerve.

 

It also says the driver failed to brake, maybe I've missed it but do we know how close the old lady was to the bus before the driver saw her and failed to brake before hitting her.

[vizzbucks]

I've read that the bus was travelling at 14mph, the old lady was in the last 2 meters of crossing the road and the driver failed to swerve.

 

It also says the driver failed to brake, maybe I've missed it but do we know how close the old lady was to the bus before the driver saw her and failed to brake before hitting her.

 

The place she was hit is a narrow piece of road, there is a maximum of 1 metre gap each side of the bus, making the road about 5 meters wide maximum, so to say she was 2 meters from the off in reality means she was in the middle of the road.

 

When driving through that bus gate, your eyes have to be everywhere, as people just run out in front of the bus instead of waiting until it's passed, or in front of taxi's. He wasn't speeding as the 14mph stated.

 

It's a daily event when i'm driving through there that people just run out to beat the bus, or just simply don't look. I really am surprised that there have not been more incidents like this in that area.

 

Oh, and can I just add, it's not only First that have the drive green scheme, but Stagecoach also have it, as do many other transportation companies.

Edited March 6, 2015 by vizzbucks

[WageSlave]

The place she was hit is a narrow piece of road, there is a maximum of 1 metre gap each side of the bus, making the road about 5 meters wide maximum, so to say she was 2 meters from the off in reality means she was in the middle of the road.

 

When driving through that bus gate, your eyes have to be everywhere, as people just run out in front of the bus instead of waiting until it's passed, or in front of taxi's. He wasn't speeding as the 14mph stated.

 

It's a daily event when i'm driving through there that people just run out to beat the bus, or just simply don't look. I really am surprised that there have not been more incidents like this in that area.

 

Oh, and can I just add, it's not only First that have the drive green scheme, but Stagecoach also have it, as do many other transportation companies.

 

14mph so yes not speeding at all but do we know how close the old lady was to the bus until the driver finally saw her. They must be a reason why he failed to brake before hitting her.

 

The old lady was already in the road, so it's not like she stepped out in front of the bus. The bus was only travelling at 14mph, yet the driver failed to brake.

[woodmally]

It also says he failed to swerve to avoid hitting her. There is no room to swerve, the road is at it's narrowest where the collision happened, and swerving would have resulted on him mounting the curb which would have resulted in him hitting people on the pavement, as it's always occupied by passengers waiting to crossing the road at that time.

 

I'm not condoning him hitting the lady, but he wasn't totally to blame. The lady walked out without looking right in front of a bus.

 

The Drive Green issue has been blown out of proportion by the newspapers, It will have been mentioned in court that there is such a scheme, and the newspapers have picked up on it making it the major factor in the story.

 

I know the driver, have known him for a few years, and he would have avoided hitting the lady if he could have.

 

By reading some of the replies in this thread, it seems like some people think he just ran her over so he could get a chance of winning the prize, then these people are fools, no bus driver would do that.

 

I agree with everything you have said. If people read my posts on here I'm not exactly singing praises of First Bus. However with this I'm 100% with you from experience in fact, my own stupidity. I know we shouldnt speak ill of the dead but the old lady did exactly what I have done, crossed in a stupid place rather than use the crossing. The lucky thing for me is that I am quicker on my feet.

 

What I am confused about is with the judge making his judgement he is stating the driver could have avoided it happening. Based on what I have read from people and knowing the area that I do, though I dont drive, I dont see how he could or am I missing something here?

[Vegas1]

He could have hit the brakes?

[woodmally]

He could have hit the brakes?

 

Ok lets work on the assumption that he didnt deliberately try to run over the woman. Which I believe by the way. The first reaction would be to hit the breaks. So why didnt he. Well maybe he didnt see her as she was crossing a blind bend.

 

Also lets assume he did see her and hit the breaks. You still need to take into account stopping distances from hitting the breaks to a full stop it takes time depending on the speed of the vehicle so again it might not have helped.

[Dannyno]

The article says he failed to brake or swerve. So that's why he was convicted of dangerous driving.

 

Why didn't he brake or swerve? Well, "He told police officers that bus operator First runs a bonus scheme for drivers who make the smoothest journeys each month."

 

Which suggests it was in his head to avoid braking suddenly or swerving. And that's why he didn't. And that was his "error of judgement" that got him convicted. He didn't take evasive action when he could and should have, and the reason for that is because he was trying to drive in a particular way, even when driving that way was inappropriate. So maybe he kept going rather than braking suddenly and realised too late he was going to hit the victim and they weren't going to get out of the way in time. I could imagine that happening.

 

I notice now that he made that comment to the police. I'd been thinking, as I think others have here, that First's smooth driving scheme formed part of the bloke's defence

in court. But there's actually nothing in the article that says it was. Sounds like it came up in police evidence, doesn't it? "When we spoke to the driver, he said..." So he may not actually have been trying to use it as his defence or in mitigation.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 22:59 ----------

 

Ok lets work on the assumption that he didnt deliberately try to run over the woman. Which I believe by the way. The first reaction would be to hit the breaks. So why didnt he. Well maybe he didnt see her as she was crossing a blind bend.

 

Also lets assume he did see her and hit the breaks. You still need to take into account stopping distances from hitting the breaks to a full stop it takes time depending on the speed of the vehicle so again it might not have helped.

 

He obviously didn't deliberately kill the woman. That comes through in the judge's comments about errors of judgement, and in the sentence he passed.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 23:07 ----------

 

We don't know the exact positions of bus and victim. Failing to brake or swerve at all to avoid a collision is obviously dangerous driving, it shows a lack of awareness (even taking into account the other mitigating circumstances) and care.

 

Would braking or swerving have helped? Again, we don't have a map of everyone's positions.

 

Braking would have reduced speed, and while it might not have prevented a collision it may have resulted in injury rather than death. 14mph is not fast, but buses are big and heavy. Reducing speed even a bit could have saved a life.

 

Some here are saying there wasn't room to swerve. I don't know. However, even if it wasn't possible to avoid a collision, maybe the driver could have avoided a full-on collision (if that's what happened), which may have saved a life, or maybe they could have avoided trapping the victim (if that's what happened, instead).

 

I think any attempt to avoid the collision, even if not completely successful, could have meant that death could have been avoided. Presumably the judge took the same view.

 

---------- Post added 06-03-2015 at 23:09 ----------

 

The Daily Mail (sorry) has a fuller quote from the judge:

 

‘The system his company employs encourages gradual acceleration and deceleration and resistance as far as possible from turning the steering wheel fiercely.

 

‘It may have been possible had he used greater steering to avoid the lady who was in the last two metres of crossing this road. There was a clear error of judgement in that respect.’

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972744/Great-grandmother-killed-bus-driver-trying-win-green-bonus-given-use-fuel.html

[vizzbucks]

As you turn the corner over the tram tracks, there are many things to look for, like people running to beat the bus, people on either side looking like they are going to walk out, any trams moving etc. With it being a narrow bit of road, even though you have looked to make sure the road is clear, you then look in your mirrors, look at side to make sure nobody is there, then you look forward again, people still walk out in front of the bus. Dave will have braked, but will have been too late. The drive green system showed him braking, that's how we know he was doing 14mph, it showed that on the system, but unfortunately, with all his checks it seems he saw her late and hit to poor lady.

 

I just wish people would realise how serious it is at that point, and not walk into the road without looking, or worse, run trying to beat the bus