Sheffield City Council meeting - An important Invitation

[Longcol]

No one is happy with cuts to services, and personally I wouldn't even mind paying more to sustain them - if I thought that the money would be well spent, go towards public services, and if I thought I was getting value for money.

 

But increasing council tax so we can continue paying these people huge salaries hardly suggests that it is, and I don't want to pay more just so they can continue to draw their greedy fat cat salaries which they seem to think they're entitled to. They are not even particularly good at what they do judging by the major **** ups they've presided over.

 

These salaries constitiute what fraction of 1% of the £1.3 billion of council spending.

 

These salaries are pretty much par for the course nationally in local government, health etc and a lot less than jobs in the private sector managing the same level of spend, staff management responsibility etc- and have their arms tied much more by having to meet increasing demands from increased legislation and demographic changes with less money to spend.

[tinfoilhat]

Really?

 

And your evidence for this is.........................................

 

We have two universities here and a high proportion of them stay once graduated. They can't all be working in Starbucks. We also had a couple of very large government offices like moorfoot, chock full of quite high up civil servants. Where did they go?

[Longcol]

1) The current lot have presided over some major **** ups, so how good do you think they actually are?

 

2) The only way to find out is to try it. Advertise the jobs and see how many apply and what quality the applicants are.

Are you saying there are no capable people in Sheffield?

Where is your evidence for that?

 

The jobs are advertised - your point is................................

 

---------- Post added 07-03-2015 at 02:13 ----------

 

We have two universities here and a high proportion of them stay once graduated. They can't all be working in Starbucks. We also had a couple of very large government offices like moorfoot, chock full of quite high up civil servants. Where did they go?

 

The council officers on these salaries are likely university graduates with a post grad professional qualification plus a good few years experience.

 

The MSC staff will largely be retired by now.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Longcol

[tinfoilhat]

Perhaps you should actually know whether we need them or not, before you form your opinion.

These people are not members of the council of course, and are not putting our council tax up.

 

Why would they agree to reduce their salaries, they could probably leave and go to the private sector and earn more, leaving the council to backfill the positions, costing the same salary again, plus the cost of recruiting.

 

Let's be honest, a lot of the time particularly when it comes to the NhS/council there are always 5 senior managers when two would do. I bet they're quite keen on getting people to rationalise what they do, lay off staff as needed and get someone to do two jobs - it's happening a lot. But who oversees the directors of public health etc? Do we need all of them? What are they doing? They aren't going to ask the question, their feet are firmly under the table and they'll stay there until something better turns up or there is a rotherhamesque **** storm of biblical proportions. The posts are now their and turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

[Longcol]

Let's be honest, a lot of the time particularly when it comes to the NhS/council there are always 5 senior managers when two would do.

 

Evidence please.

[tinfoilhat]

Evidence please.

 

No;)

 

Purely anecdotal, based on my own experiences. Do you think there are too many, too few or just the right amount of senior managers and directors at SCC.

 

And show your working.

[*_ash_*]

These salaries constitiute what fraction of 1% of the £1.3 billion of council spending.

 

*puts hand up* I know

 

(assuming you intended to put a question mark at the end, or it was rhetorical)

 

These salaries are pretty much par for the course nationally in local government, health etc and a lot less than jobs in the private sector managing the same level of spend, staff management responsibility etc- and have their arms tied much more by having to meet increasing demands from increased legislation and demographic changes with less money to spend.

 

Yes, but ask the people who go to foodbanks what they think to these wages!?*

 

 

 

 

 

 

*to quote the SNP representative on QT shortly before stopped it I deleted the recording earlier. These signs of lack in intellect amongst leading figures is worrying.

Edited March 7, 2015 by *_ash_*
couldn't edit during cut off time

[Cyclone]

Let's be honest, a lot of the time particularly when it comes to the NhS/council there are always 5 senior managers when two would do. I bet they're quite keen on getting people to rationalise what they do, lay off staff as needed and get someone to do two jobs - it's happening a lot. But who oversees the directors of public health etc? Do we need all of them? What are they doing? They aren't going to ask the question, their feet are firmly under the table and they'll stay there until something better turns up or there is a rotherhamesque **** storm of biblical proportions. The posts are now their and turkeys won't vote for Christmas.

 

The council overseas them. The councillors, you know, the ones we elect, who are basically unpaid.

What makes you think that they'd happily keep on 5 managers when 2 would do, and make public service cuts likely to get them voted out at the next election?

 

---------- Post added 07-03-2015 at 10:11 ----------

 

We have two universities here and a high proportion of them stay once graduated. They can't all be working in Starbucks. We also had a couple of very large government offices like moorfoot, chock full of quite high up civil servants. Where did they go?

 

So you think these qualified and experienced past graduates, still in Sheffield, presumably in the private sector, would take over at a large pay cut for some of these council posts?

 

---------- Post added 07-03-2015 at 10:13 ----------

 

Let them leave.

 

We have many capable people in Sheffield who would be willing to do the job for a lesser salary. The idea that we have to pay these salaries to get 'the best' people is a myth propagated by the very people who do them. Let's face it, judging by results, they haven't been such a success in a great many areas they operate in.

 

The only reason that salaries have rocketed to the current levels is because they have conspired to pay themselves such sums.

 

You missed my point.

 

Costing the same salary again, plus recruitment costs.

 

You can't fill senior posts like these without paying an appropriate amount, unless of course you want to put someone under qualified in them who'll mess it up.

 

The idea that you can pay less and fill senior positions like this is propagated by people like you who don't know anything about positions at this level or what the private sector pay would be for an equivalent job.

[Narden Dee]

I can't help but think that labour councils (not just Sheffield) aren't trying too hard to adapt and instead using cuts (which lets face it aren't going away whoever wins in May) to gain political mileage. I'd say Tory councils are managing better but there aren't any left are there?;)

 

Well that's because the formula to calculate how much LA's get has been altered and it now gives smaller and predominately Tory councils more money

[sheff1johnny]

The council overseas them. The councillors, you know, the ones we elect, who are basically unpaid.

What makes you think that they'd happily keep on 5 managers when 2 would do, and make public service cuts likely to get them voted out at the next election?

 

---------- Post added 07-03-2015 at 10:11 ----------

 

 

So you think these qualified and experienced past graduates, still in Sheffield, presumably in the private sector, would take over at a large pay cut for some of these council posts?

 

---------- Post added 07-03-2015 at 10:13 ----------

 

 

You missed my point.

 

Costing the same salary again, plus recruitment costs.

 

You can't fill senior posts like these without paying an appropriate amount, unless of course you want to put someone under qualified in them who'll mess it up.

 

The idea that you can pay less and fill senior positions like this is propagated by people like you who don't know anything about positions at this level or what the private sector pay would be for an equivalent job.

 

Councils up and down the country, have made staff redundant, then re hired the same people back into a different post. It is worth considering whether all the posts are needed. Maybe they are, but maybe the time spent in such roles could be reduced, to save money. I admit I don't know about these positions, but it doesn't mean that the council isn't wasting money. There should be more scrutiny, like government has the public accounts committee. Our Mps could possibly oversee this, who knows?