Sheffield City Council meeting - An important Invitation

[Anna B]

The council overseas them. The councillors, you know, the ones we elect, who are basically unpaid.

What makes you think that they'd happily keep on 5 managers when 2 would do, and make public service cuts likely to get them voted out at the next election?

 

They are not exactly unpaid though are they?

Our 84 elected councillors each have a basic 'allowance' of approx £11,700. Not a lot I'll grant you, and some of them earn every penny, but a lot don't. And it's a part time job.

 

BUT added to that are extra allowances and expenses for additional roles,sitting on committees etc, so Julie Dore for example ends up with over £32,000, which isn't inconsiderable.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Ms Macbeth
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[ECCOnoob]

Theres some lovely made up jobs for the boys in that list. instead of cutting services they could start by getting rid of half of these fancy ,pointless positions .

 

They have a director in public heallth on 98k , but also feel the need to pay a consultant 81k .

 

And what the hell is an "Executive director of place " ?

 

and an "executive director of CYPF "

 

both creaming 141K a year.

 

What exactly are fancy and pointless about these positions. Have you actually been through a job description of each and every one. Have you broke down the chain of command, checked through the direct reports and control responsibilities. Have you done a workflow projection to show where there tasks would be re-allocated to and the personnel required to complete them.

 

..... what that? NO, oh never mind then.

 

Its the same argument all time time. Oooh look at what they earn. They don't deserve it. Their job is a non job.... waaa waaa waaa.

 

If you feel so strongly why don't you actually bother to find out what their jobs are. What exactly they do and then decide if its a needed position.

 

All well and good shouting your big mouth off about "pointless positions" but then to follow it up by "....what the hell is a xxx"

 

You brought it up. Why don't you go and find out.

[Longcol]

The council overseas them. The councillors, you know, the ones we elect, who are basically unpaid.

What makes you think that they'd happily keep on 5 managers when 2 would do, and make public service cuts likely to get them voted out at the next election?

 

They are not exactly unpaid though are they?

Our 84 elected councillors each have a basic 'allowance' of approx £11,700. Not a lot I'll grant you, and some of them earn every penny, but a lot don't. And it's a part time job.

 

BUT added to that are extra allowances and expenses for additional roles,sitting on committees etc, so Julie Dore for example ends up with over £32,000, which isn't inconsiderable.

 

£32k is a pretty small amount - its a middle managers salary in a middle size organisation.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Ms Macbeth
Fixed quote tags

[green]

If anyone has read the Rotherham Casey report, what comes across is the lack of professionalism, checks & balances & good governance from both the Councillors & the Officers.

 

Whilst reading it, i continually thought of my own experiences when meeting Sheffield's Councillors, Officers and viewing of their meetings. They are identical problems.

[max]

The council tax increase is estimated to generate £3.3m in revenue.

 

We are suggesting that the council tax increase be replaced by the £2m freeze grant and £1.3m sourced from somewhere else such as a reduction to executive pay.

 

We are not contesting the councils solutions to the rest of the funding gap.

 

The problem with this idea is that the freeze grant is a one off payment. If the council tax is not increased this year then there will be a shortfall of £3.3m next year plus whatever next year's shortfall is likely to be. Similarly, the following year there will be 2 years' shortfall plus that year's. The shortfall will be compounded year on year.

 

The freeze bonus is not an ongoing payment and may not be repeated each year.

[rinzwind]

What exactly are fancy and pointless about these positions. Have you actually been through a job description of each and every one. Have you broke down the chain of command, checked through the direct reports and control responsibilities. Have you done a workflow projection to show where there tasks would be re-allocated to and the personnel required to complete them.

 

..... what that? NO, oh never mind then."

 

Actually erm...YES. Don't act like we haven't done any research because you don't know what you are talking about. These are not unfounded accusations.

 

Chain of command breakdown.

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/dms/scc/management/corporate-communications/documents/people-organisations/people/Chief-Executive-and-management-structure-chart/Chief%20Executive%20and%20management%20structure%20chart.docx

 

You comment is a textbook example of troll disinformation technique number 12.

 

"12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation.html

[ECCOnoob]

Actually erm...YES. Don't act like we haven't done any research because you don't know what you are talking about. These are not unfounded accusations.

 

Chain of command breakdown.

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/dms/scc/management/corporate-communications/documents/people-organisations/people/Chief-Executive-and-management-structure-chart/Chief%20Executive%20and%20management%20structure%20chart.docx

 

You comment is a textbook example of troll disinformation technique number 12.

 

"12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to loose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues."

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation.html

 

What are you talking about. Why is it up to me to come up with anything. I was not the one banging on about "pointless positions"

 

What you have provided is nothing relevant anyway. So you have provided a organisation structure. That's not what I was referring to.

 

Before deciding what is a pointless and unnecessary position businesses in the real world actually do a cost/benefit analysis, they look at the tasks that x person does, they look at the reallocation needed if x person was not there, they look at the personnel and skills set required to make up such a gap.

 

Unless P999 (who I was actually replying to) can show that he has suddenly done all that - how the hell does he know that any of the positions he boldly claims are "made up jobs for the boys" and "pointless" are actually not required.

 

Im not saying either way. I don't have any of the FACTS. Neither does he.

 

Difference is, im not going to make myself look a clot by spouting off about something I know nothing about and with nothing to back it up.

[Cyclone]

There was certainly no attempt to claim that anything was an enigma

[Longcol]

Actually erm...YES. Don't act like we haven't done any research because you don't know what you are talking about. These are not unfounded accusations.

 

Chain of command breakdown.

 

https://www.sheffield.gov.uk/dms/scc/management/corporate-communications/documents/people-organisations/people/Chief-Executive-and-management-structure-chart/Chief%20Executive%20and%20management%20structure%20chart.docx

 

Who is this "we" you've mentioned a couple of times?

 

BTW "research" involves more than a google of the SCC website and a link to the management structure.

[rinzwind]

What are you talking about. Why is it up to me to come up with anything. I was not the one banging on about "pointless positions"

 

You suggested that the other posters in this forum did not understand the complexities of the issue.

 

What you have provided is nothing relevant anyway. So you have provided a organisation structure. That's not what I was referring to.

 

You stated "Have you broke down the chain of command?" I have now provided you with a breakdown of the chain of command.

 

Before deciding what is a pointless and unnecessary position businesses in the real world actually do a cost/benefit analysis, they look at the tasks that x person does, they look at the reallocation needed if x person was not there, they look at the personnel and skills set required to make up such a gap.

 

You mean a cost benefit analysis like this...

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/costbenefit_analysis_of_the_info

 

Unless P999 (who I was actually replying to) can show that he has suddenly done all that - how the hell does he know that any of the positions he boldly claims are "made up jobs for the boys" and "pointless" are actually not required.

 

Regardless of who you were talking to, how do you know what he does or doesn't know.

 

Im not saying either way. I don't have any of the FACTS. Neither does he.

 

I think you are perhaps half right. You don't know what facts other people possess.

 

Difference is, im not going to make myself look a clot by spouting off about something I know nothing about and with nothing to back it up.

 

No, you will make yourself look a clot by dismissing other people's opinions as simply "rumor" in a failed attempt to shut down this discussion early before it gets interesting. Please see...

 

Troll disinformation technique number 3

 

3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such “arguable rumors”. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a “wild rumor” which can have no basis in fact.

 

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/05/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation.html

Edited March 8, 2015 by rinzwind