Science Is Vital

[biotechpete]

Can anyone point me to details about STEM candidates being put up by the main parties at the election?

 

I have seen that the Lib Dems have a few but as far as I can make out they are the only party really taking the science agenda seriously with 6 candidates in top seats plus a further 20 odd standing.

http://aldes.org.uk/teamscience/?page_id=6

http://aldes.org.uk/teamscience/?page_id=179

[GLASGOWOODS]

Similarly a lot of scientists move to the UK because opportunity and reputation-gainability (yes I know) are far greater here. But the UK is under increasing pressure and Biotechpete is right, it is not being addressed appropriately. As a Dutch academic I moved here for the reasons mentioned, but it is quickly tilting back in the favour of Dutch universities, despite massive cuts to the budget in the Netherlands, because they are actively recruiting academics to come back.

 

In my time at the University of Sheffield (2008-2010) as researcher I have witnessed the biggest talents being poached by either Australian or American universities and the brightest Middle-Eastern and Chinese PhDs choosing not to stay here but move back to their home countries.

 

If I chose to move to China this summer I would live twice as well as I would live here if it weren't for my wife.

 

My ex did her PHD in Sheffield around (2003-2005) Biochemistry. She couldn't find a job in research,(and the pay was poor), so finished up working for a Pharma company in Milton Keynes (Beckman& Coulter), before moving to N.Ireland to work for Randox.

 

My current partner returned to Scotland from the USA, after turning down forensic work over there. The reason why- The UK (particularly Scotland) is a world leader in forensic sciences. The US is way behind (which surprised me).

 

My ex and current partner both said working abroad in their respective fields would see them earn a lot more than over here.

[biotechpete]

My ex did her PHD in Sheffield around (2003-2005) Biochemistry. She couldn't find a job in research,(and the pay was poor), so finished up working for a Pharma company in Milton Keynes (Beckman& Coulter), before moving to N.Ireland to work for Randox.

 

My current partner returned to Scotland from the USA, after turning down forensic work over there. The reason why- The UK (particularly Scotland) is a world leader in forensic sciences. The US is way behind (which surprised me).

 

My ex and current partner both said working abroad in their respective fields would see them earn a lot more than over here.

 

It's true that it pays well abroad, a friend of mine was consistently turned down for a lecture position here in the UK yet he was head hunted with 500k to spend on staff & equipment to move to a tenure track position in the USA. After his employers found out they offered him a position to stay but it was too late, and it still didn't pay as well as his new job in the states.

 

The other main issue is the UK MPs ignorance on animal research. 164 candidates including 21 MPs have signed a pledge to end almost all animal research which would cripple UK life science. Seemingly many of them had no idea of the potential impact.

[Anna B]

All very good points and I don't disagree with any of them particularly given my overall lack of knowledge on the subject! I think it's alludes to a thread I started earlier in the week - successive governments don't want to push for anything new or exciting. The best the current lot can offer is a "new" train line that can just about keep up with a 50 year old Japanese one.

 

That's because the establishment in this country sits on its laurels and still seems to think it has an empire to run. It has failed to move on and see that the world is changing fast.

 

It only encourages its own; an inbred coterie of class and privilege, rather than a meritocracy of the best bright young capable people from a wide range of backgrounds.

[tinfoilhat]

That's because the establishment in this country sits on its laurels and still seems to think it has an empire to run. It has failed to move on and see that the world is changing fast.

 

It only encourages its own; an inbred coterie of class and privilege, rather than a meritocracy of the best bright young capable people from a wide range of backgrounds.

 

I don't think it encourages anyone to do anything new and game changing. If it was just the people of class and privilege doing (as per the industrial revolution in the main) I'd live with it to a certain degree because at least something would be happening.

[Anna B]

I don't think it encourages anyone to do anything new and game changing. If it was just the people of class and privilege doing (as per the industrial revolution in the main) I'd live with it to a certain degree because at least something would be happening.

 

Mmmm maybe. But remember necessity is the mother of invention, and let's face it, what do people of class and privilege actually have need of? They want for nothing. They inhabit a different world to the rest of us, and have a deep rooted, vested interest in seeing it stay the way it is. Why would they want it to change?

[Obelix]

Mmmm maybe. But remember necessity is the mother of invention, and let's face it, what do people of class and privilege actually have need of? They want for nothing. They inhabit a different world to the rest of us, and have a deep rooted, vested interest in seeing it stay the way it is. Why would they want it to change?

 

You are looking through the blinkers of assuming all people of class and priviledge exist soley to oppress the workers Anna. It's a tiresome and wholly incorrect view that you have and it leads you up these blind alleys like the one above you are exploring.

[Anna B]

You are looking through the blinkers of assuming all people of class and priviledge exist soley to oppress the workers Anna. It's a tiresome and wholly incorrect view that you have and it leads you up these blind alleys like the one above you are exploring.

 

All I'm trying to say is that we are a country that tends to look to our glorious past rather than forward to a great future. And that the people who hold the purse strings tend to be conservative (small c) types, and not naturally given to being futuristic.

 

Massive generalisations I know, but just my opinion.

[Obelix]

Then perhaps say that, rather than a pointless and inaccurate political diatriabe...?

 

Just a thought.

[nightrider]

There is loads of promotion for STEM careers in schools. However I do worry about the long term opportunities for students following these routes. As a science graduate I found there to be very little well paid work in this area of the country. Research work is often temporary and constant funding has to be reapplied for, as you state funding is getting harder to come by.

 

 

I think STEM does open doors - but its true we really don't need more scientists, the jobs simply don't exist. Most of the PhD students I have helped train got good jobs in the private sector using their skills (e.g. programming, statistics, experience of working in international teams etc), so there is no worry about getting a job (but an academic based one is very unlikely nowadays, especially given the huge expansion in PhD places and lack of expansion in academic jobs) - I doubt they needed the PhD to do that though. The private sector could put on their own training schemes and take such people straight from undergraduate level presumably and they would end up just as good. Perhaps the PhD is an easy way for them to find such people with little effort though!