Running. Why do they do it?

[scottf]

My only question is to people who run with headphones on. I simply cannot grasp the concept. Listen to nature's soundtrack - much more pleasant!

 

It depends where you run i guess, but even when im out in the middle of no-where i find that the music i run to (trance music) can really lift me up when its getting tough, make me smile and therefore keep me running when i think i would have stopped otherwise!

[Cyclone]

I know. I was just countering your argument in post #52 where you suggested running and walking can be swapped out, albeit walking needing more time

They can. With regards to the post that I was quoting. Which was talking about reducing the risk of mortality.

OK, I'm no expert, in fact I know very little. The way I had it explained to me was that normally you breathe and the oxygen, along with food fuels your muscles. If you manage to keep breathing at that level and sustaining your effort, you are exercising aerobically.

Anaerobic is where you have the ability to bypass the direct use of oxygen that you have breathed and get all your fuel from your glycogen stores. Of course, you can't do this forever, and when it catches up with you, you are curled up in oxygen dept. You've also gone into the red and will have taken a lot out of your stamina. So, it's what you might do in a sprint finish, but not mid-marathon

I was also told that the ability to go anaerobic naturally is quite rare - you can train for it to a point, but the large %age of the populous cannot do it.

No, anyone can do it. Just do a 100m sprint flat out.

 

I'll find you a good link to explain both in a few minutes.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:05 ----------

 

http://www.fitness19.com/aerobic-and-anaerobic-exercise-what-is-the-difference/

 

Note that it says that you usually have about 2 hrs worth of glycogen for anaerobic use.

 

You also use glycogen for aerobic exercise though, it's just a chemical store of energy in muscles.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:07 ----------

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21190/

 

Glycogen is converted into glucose under any normal exercising condition.

 

And here's how it's used for anaerobic exercise

http://www.umich.edu/~medfit/resistancetraining/timingiseverything101705.html

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:09 ----------

 

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. This explains it it better than i could:

I don't quite understand what you mean since that doesn't counter what I said.

 

I would also suggest that how long your glycogen will last depends on the amount of effort that you're putting in. If you're exercising anaerobically I don't think that your glycogen levels will be able to support anaerobic exercise for more than a matter of minutes.

2 hrs for an average person.

 

As to the increasing your anaerobic threshold, surely this would increase as you get fitter automatically, as it's measured as being 90% of your maximum heart rate.

It increases if you train anaerobically, it won't increase much if you always train aerobically.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:14 ----------

 

Some interesting information about post training recovering here

 

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/110413p18.shtml

 

Although I was looking for specific durations to restore glycogen reserves.

 

Here we go

 

Therefore, at least 20 hours are required to recover muscle glycogen stores, even when the diet is optimal. So, athletes working out two times per day should complete one workout at a diminished workload to relieve the reliance on glycogen reserves.

From http://thesportjournal.org/article/glycogen-replenishment-after-exhaustive-exercise/

 

So unless you are training strenously (>2hrs anaerobic) and more than once a day, you shouldn't have an issue with glycogen reserves. It isn't a barrier to regular and intense training.

Personally I wouldn't run every day, 3 times a week is enough for me, I do other things on the off days.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:19 ----------

 

https://runneracademy.com/aerobic-vs-anaerobic/

 

Some running specific information there about it.

 

Speaking for myself, I can do 5k entirely anaerobic, and have to do that if I want to improve my PB. And I won't feel sore the next day, because I do this fairly regularly.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 14:21 ----------

 

Actually that last link is dumbing it down a little bit too much IMO. It's talking about sugar when they mean glycogen (but sugar could more accurately mean glucose) and it's talking about hydrogen (as if it were the gas) when it means hydrogen ions.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Cyclone

[Blaster Bate]

Demonstrably not true.

 

The older you get the less good running is for the human joints due to the impact on joints that running causes.

 

Power walking is far better due to it being less damaging to joints according to the medical profession.

[JFKvsNixon]

I don't quite understand what you mean since that doesn't counter what I said.

 

The link says that when you run out of O2, you use glycogen as an energy source. So you use it when you go into O2 debt. Remember you claimed that it's use is unrelated to O2 debt.

 

Anaerobic glycolysis exclusively uses glucose (and glycogen) as a fuel in the absence of oxygen, or more specifically when ATP is needed at rates that exceed those provided by aerobic metabolism.

 

2 hrs for an average person.

 

Are you seriously trying to claim that you can work out for two hours anaerobically?

 

 

It increases if you train anaerobically, it won't increase much if you always train aerobically.

 

Rubbish. So are you claiming if I regularly work out for 4 hours with a heart rate of 150/160 BPM I won't increase my threshold!

[JFKvsNixon]

Speaking for myself, I can do 5k entirely anaerobic, and have to do that if I want to improve my PB. And I won't feel sore the next day, because I do this fairly regularly.

 

Sorry I missed this. I think that we are talking cross purposes about anaerobic exercise. At the very basic level I was taught that anaerobic means without oxygen, so anaerobic exercise means exercise without oxygen, where oxygen demand surpasses oxygen supply.

[Blaster Bate]

Sorry I missed this. I think that we are talking cross purposes about anaerobic exercise. At the very basic level I was taught that anaerobic means without oxygen, so anaerobic exercise means exercise without oxygen, where oxygen demand surpasses oxygen supply.

Sounds a bit like tories demanding free labour when nobody will oblige.

[Cyclone]

The older you get the less good running is for the human joints due to the impact on joints that running causes.

And yet studies prove that running reduces the risk of arthritis.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 21:49 ----------

 

The link says that when you run out of O2, you use glycogen as an energy source. So you use it when you go into O2 debt. Remember you claimed that it's use is unrelated to O2 debt.

Perhaps I could have been more clear.

 

You are using glycogen all the time you are exercising, you use it differently when in an anaerobic state, but you are using it whether you have enough O2 or not.

 

 

 

 

Are you seriously trying to claim that you can work out for two hours anaerobically?

I can't. But the link suggests that you have enough glycogen to do so.

Feel free to provide counter evidence.

 

Rubbish. So are you claiming if I regularly work out for 4 hours with a heart rate of 150/160 BPM I won't increase my threshold!

 

Don't take my word for it, do some research into how to increase your anaerobic threshold.

Like most things, it's not by training below it, you need to be pushing it to increase it.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 21:54 ----------

 

Sorry I missed this. I think that we are talking cross purposes about anaerobic exercise. At the very basic level I was taught that anaerobic means without oxygen, so anaerobic exercise means exercise without oxygen, where oxygen demand surpasses oxygen supply.

 

Where Ox demand surpasses Ox supply, yes. And you are in that state when running hard, and you can stay in that state for a significant length of time.

 

Here's an article about training anaerobically.

 

http://running.competitor.com/2013/12/training/dont-neglect-your-anaerobic-development_44060

 

What does this mean for you? It means that you should not neglect anaerobic development in your training, as many runners do. To increase your aerobic capacity you need to do workouts that take your body to the point where it is consuming as much oxygen as possible and then force it to do additional work beyond that point. It’s not fun, but it’s very effective and a little goes a long way.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 21:56 ----------

 

Anaerobic Exercise

 

Oxygen is not present with anaerobic exercise. When we exercise anaerobically glycogen is used as fuel. Once all the glycogen has been depleted (usually in about two hours) you can expect to hit the proverbial wall. Endurance athletes avoid this performance buster with carbo loading before exercise (which when converted to sugar gives more energy) and supplements during exercise to sustain energy

 

I guess you'd read this though, as you looked at all the links I provided earlier, right?

[biotechpete]

I have recently returned to running. I'm 46 and whilst I'm a snail compared to the youthful me, the benefits are beyond question.

 

Weight is dropping off and my stomach is actually becoming defined! I feel healthier and am cutting down on the anti-depressants. 40 minutes in the fresh air, up on Lodge Moor, all by myself; sure, it can be hard work but that feeling when you come out of the shower is wonderful.

 

My only question is to people who run with headphones on. I simply cannot grasp the concept. Listen to nature's soundtrack - much more pleasant!

 

I use music to keep me occupied and choose the tracks based on what pace I want. That said I ran down the A6 tonight so the more you can block out the better.

 

---------- Post added 06-07-2015 at 22:50 ----------

 

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. This explains it it better than i could:

 

 

 

I would also suggest that how long your glycogen will last depends on the amount of effort that you're putting in. If you're exercising anaerobically I don't think that your glycogen levels will be able to support anaerobic exercise for more than a matter of minutes.

 

As to the increasing your anaerobic threshold, surely this would increase as you get fitter automatically, as it's measured as being 90% of your maximum heart rate.

 

I can sustain 90% of my max heart rate for 30-40 mins. I only realised recently that my easy pace was above threshold and my race pace was 90% or more. I have been training that way for a long time but anaerobic respiration can sustain you for a relatively long period of time.

[Winemaster]

To improve you Threshold pace you will also need to know at what point your body produces lactate and how long it takes to shift it.

Without this you are pretty much guessing so you will be either under or over training which in turn is pretty pointless as all you will accomplish is maintaining your fitness levels after a certain amount of time

[biotechpete]

To improve you Threshold pace you will also need to know at what point your body produces lactate and how long it takes to shift it.

Without this you are pretty much guessing so you will be either under or over training which in turn is pretty pointless as all you will accomplish is maintaining your fitness levels after a certain amount of time

 

Yes although most amateur runners will use a heart rate as a proxy measure, in the absence of access to specialist sports science services. I'd love to have my vO2 max properly measured though.

 

I trained immediately after doing sprint intervals today (heart rate over 95% max), and went straight into a run at about 80% max average. The run was longer than I intended but I didn't have a problem sustaining that and at times exceeding 90% max for another hour before I got home. I think I'm under training but granted I have no idea other than by heart rate how to judge it.

Edited July 6, 2015 by biotechpete