DrNorm Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 We all know what perverting the course of justice is, and the courts take it pretty seriously. We're right to expect that everybody gets a fair trial and that outside influences don't use bribery, blackmail or coercion to free the guilty or punish the innocent. So, how do you feel about the the current party political system where the whips use bribery, blackmail and coercion to get our elected representatives to vote against their will. That's what the whips are there to do, it's their job. But shouldn't we be as offended by this as we are by the use of bribery, blackmail and coercion in the courts? Shouldn't perverting the course of democracy be as serious as treason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We all know what perverting the course of justice is, and the courts take it pretty seriously. We're right to expect that everybody gets a fair trial and that outside influences don't use bribery, blackmail or coercion to free the guilty or punish the innocent. So, how do you feel about the the current party political system where the whips use bribery, blackmail and coercion to get our elected representatives to vote against their will. That's what the whips are there to do, it's their job. But shouldn't we be as offended by this as we are by the use of bribery, blackmail and coercion in the courts? Shouldn't perverting the course of democracy be as serious as treason? An interesting point. It comes down to who the politicians represent, the people who put them there, or the party. The other great influence, and much misunderstood by the general public, is the disgraceful practice of lobbying. In fact there's much that goes on in the house of commons that is unhelpful, undemocratic and belongs back in the age of the rotton buroughs; filibustering, and gerrymandering for example. In fact our system of government is generally archaic, not fit for purpose, and in need of a thorough overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bloom Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We all know what perverting the course of justice is, and the courts take it pretty seriously. We're right to expect that everybody gets a fair trial and that outside influences don't use bribery, blackmail or coercion to free the guilty or punish the innocent. So, how do you feel about the the current party political system where the whips use bribery, blackmail and coercion to get our elected representatives to vote against their will. That's what the whips are there to do, it's their job. But shouldn't we be as offended by this as we are by the use of bribery, blackmail and coercion in the courts? Shouldn't perverting the course of democracy be as serious as treason? Case in point. http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5530/how-mps-voted-on-move-to-change-official-secrets-act-over-csa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We all know what perverting the course of justice is, and the courts take it pretty seriously. We're right to expect that everybody gets a fair trial and that outside influences don't use bribery, blackmail or coercion to free the guilty or punish the innocent. So, how do you feel about the the current party political system where the whips use bribery, blackmail and coercion to get our elected representatives to vote against their will. That's what the whips are there to do, it's their job. But shouldn't we be as offended by this as we are by the use of bribery, blackmail and coercion in the courts? Shouldn't perverting the course of democracy be as serious as treason? Just about every MP is elected as a representative of a political party. Whips are there to enforce the parties' policies. MPs have the right to break the whip and many do. Comparing it to treason is stupid. Treason is a threat to the state. Party whips have been around for years and the state hasn't been undermined because of them. Otherwise the state would have withered years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just about every MP is elected as a representative of a political party. Whips are there to enforce the parties' policies. MPs have the right to break the whip and many do. Comparing it to treason is stupid. Treason is a threat to the state. Party whips have been around for years and the state hasn't been undermined because of them. Otherwise the state would have withered years ago. Does this mean that once elected as an MP, in the majority of cases, you suddenly have to turn into a sheep? I wouldn't say not following the party whip is a treasonable offence, but to blindly follow 'the party line' is spineless at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 We all know what perverting the course of justice is, and the courts take it pretty seriously. We're right to expect that everybody gets a fair trial and that outside influences don't use bribery, blackmail or coercion to free the guilty or punish the innocent. So, how do you feel about the the current party political system where the whips use bribery, blackmail and coercion to get our elected representatives to vote against their will. That's what the whips are there to do, it's their job. But shouldn't we be as offended by this as we are by the use of bribery, blackmail and coercion in the courts? Shouldn't perverting the course of democracy be as serious as treason? Bribery, blackmail or coercion, or in another word, "negotiations". The phrase, "if you do ... i'll do ...." has been part of our society since before democracy existed. You seem to think it should be black and white, but it is not and never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Does this mean that once elected as an MP, in the majority of cases, you suddenly have to turn into a sheep? I wouldn't say not following the party whip is a treasonable offence, but to blindly follow 'the party line' is spineless at the very least. Especially when the issue at stake is something that genuinely crosses party lines like the above link to the vote on amending the Official Secrets Act to prevent it being used against those who highlight Child Sex Abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Does this mean that once elected as an MP, in the majority of cases, you suddenly have to turn into a sheep? I wouldn't say not following the party whip is a treasonable offence, but to blindly follow 'the party line' is spineless at the very least. What do people expect? We have gone away from electing local MP's and now vote for parties almost exclusively. Look at the discussions here, how many are about the local MP's commitments on local affairs? None! Its all about national politics and this is what elects parties. If an MP strays off the party line, this has the capability to effect the party as a whole and so whips are there to insure MP's stay on subject. The complaints about sound bite politics is the same. If people gave their full attention and fully read manifestos, we would not need short burst of very limited information to engage people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 What do people expect? We have gone away from electing local MP's and now vote for parties almost exclusively. Look at the discussions here, how many are about the local MP's commitments on local affairs? None! Its all about national politics and this is what elects parties. If an MP strays off the party line, this has the capability to effect the party as a whole and so whips are there to insure MP's stay on subject. The complaints about sound bite politics is the same. If people gave their full attention and fully read manifestos, we would not need short burst of very limited information to engage people. What a bizarre notion?....So at elections we all vote along party lines?....Given that, they (MP's) might as well all stay at home with their feet up and let the PM do whatever he likes unchallenged. Yes let's all rush off and read every party political manifesto and inwardly digest it all and make a party-wide voting decision based on that....It might have escaped your notice, but manifesto promises are pretty frequently ignored, forgotten about, quietly buried....Or simply lost in the sea of bull that floats about... Which reminds me...I must read all the terms and conditions of this site (I have actually)...then check the ones on Facebook, and the ones for my banking, and the ones for my insurances....etc...etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) What a bizarre notion?....So at elections we all vote along party lines?....Given that, they (MP's) might as well all stay at home with their feet up and let the PM do whatever he likes unchallenged. You misunderstand me Pete. What I meant was, come election time, we vote on national party issues, not local. Edited March 31, 2015 by Berberis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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