US drone have murdered 1000's

[DrNorm]

So are we at war with Pakistan? Do we not need to be careful how many innocent people we kill?

[Harleyman]

So basically, what you're saying is that middle eastern politics, and in fact all politics everywhere, comprises people who are effectively a bunch of duplicitous conniving self serving scumbags who don't give a fiddlers fart about ordinary people providing that they achieve what they want?

 

No S**T Sherlock, glad you finally get it.

 

As for drones, you and I have already been through this on a previous thread.

 

You know my view, they are a cowards weapon that kill innocent people, engender the hatred of people who would normally not become involved and are a recruiting agent for those they are used against.

 

How someone can accuse a terrorist who is prepared to risk their life to carry out an attack of being a coward, and at the same time find it acceptable for someone to sit behind a computer terminal and kill people over a thousand miles away is beyond me.

 

Hey! Uh! Pilgrim. Maybe we should do the John Wayne thing then and face em up at sundown. I've already explained the options as I see them.

 

You're the five star dude in charge. Explain specifically how you would deal with the ISIS situation. Past history and why it all came about not to be mentioned

[DrNorm]

Ah OK veering off topic again.

 

Are you really cased in CA? Well, the bank holiday is over and I'm up in 7 hours.

 

I'll just note that I agree the wider picture is complex. We need to respond intelligently. We need to listen to our friends. We mustn't alienate potential allies. We must be strong and just.

[Harleyman]

So are we at war with Pakistan? Do we not need to be careful how many innocent people we kill?

 

I haven't heard Pakistan mentioned on any news channel in a long time. All I hear now is ISIS in Iraq and Syria, Al Qaeda and the Houtis in Yemen, incidentally of which the Saudi Air Force is currently bombing the crap out of and probably killing quite a few Yemeni kids in the process and Boko Haron in Nigeria who carry out mass slaughter, burn villages to the ground and kidnap young girls as slave brides and oh yes a hundred or more students in Kenya just recently executed by Al Shabab guilty no doubt in the eyes of that group for learning anything above and beyond of what the Koran teaches.

 

"orrible world isn't it?

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2015 at 23:09 ----------

 

Ah OK veering off topic again.

 

Are you really cased in CA? Well, the bank holiday is over and I'm up in 7 hours.

 

I'll just note that I agree the wider picture is complex. We need to respond intelligently. We need to listen to our friends. We mustn't alienate potential allies. We must be strong and just.

 

Been in the Golden State for donkeys years. I'm absolutely sure that those unfortunate people who are under the brutal thumb of ISIS in the occupied territory must look upon the US and it's partners as friends when airstrikes finally send the IS running for their lives.

 

They are already our potential allies from hard experience under the rule of a bunch of psychos and maniacs

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2015 at 23:12 ----------

 

So basically, what you're saying is that middle eastern politics, and in fact all politics everywhere, comprises people who are effectively a bunch of duplicitous conniving self serving scumbags who don't give a fiddlers fart about ordinary people providing that they achieve what they want?

 

No S**T Sherlock, glad you finally get it.

 

As for drones, you and I have already been through this on a previous thread.

 

You know my view, they are a cowards weapon that kill innocent people, engender the hatred of people who would normally not become involved and are a recruiting agent for those they are used against.

 

How someone can accuse a terrorist who is prepared to risk their life to carry out an attack of being a coward, and at the same time find it acceptable for someone to sit behind a computer terminal and kill people over a thousand miles away is beyond me.

 

Well exactly who would you replace all politicians with? Could we ask Pope Francis to form a world government comprised of the saintly, the pure and the incorruptible to lead us from our earthly trespasses? We need some sense of reality here dude

Edited April 6, 2015 by Harleyman

[mjw47]

Christ on a bike! Pilgrim? Dude?

 

Are you for real?

 

How in blue blazes do you expect anyone to come up with a satisfactory solution to the absolute pile of crap that we have managed to get ourselves into, in a large part through our own actions?

 

If anyone could they wouldn't be sat discussing it on a forum would they?

 

They'd be running the 'free world' wouldn't they?

 

There is no obvious solution.

 

' past history and how it all came about not to be mentioned'

 

Yes, that'll work.

 

If it wasn't for past history we wouldn't have the problem would we?

 

Do you think the other side will agree to that proviso?

 

The motto which should be engraved on all government buildings involved in this is;

 

'Semper in excretia, solon profundum variat'

 

All we are doing is giving our opinions which are worthless.

 

However I will give this opinion, not only are drones not a solution they are exacerbating the problem.

 

Try to put yourself in the place of an innocent civilian in one of the areas concerned.

 

You are not a terrorist, you just want to live a peaceful life and raise your kids.

 

You have never been out of the country and have no knowledge or particular interest in foreign lands.

 

Then one day out of the blue some young guy who has never left his country operates a drone from over 7,000 miles away and kills half your family.

 

Now you're interested.

 

People who support drone strikes are not thinking it through, if you could 100% guarantee that only combatants and terrorists would be killed they would be a brilliant solution.

 

They can't and never will, so what they are actually doing is creating new terrorists and increasing the problem.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gq.com%2Fnews-politics%2Fbig-issues%2F201311%2Fdrone-uav-pilot-assassination&ei=AKkjVa_iDYLsasT9gfAF&usg=AFQjCNHAcXEgZjjPSF7mBIzyfxQHgiXR6Q&bvm=bv.89947451,d.d2s

[Alan Ladd]

The USA does not involve itself in other countries affairs as a favour to anyone but itself.

 

Just the same as every other country throughout history which had an Empire it's presence anywhere in the word is directly connected to it's own self interest.

 

That is precisely what the British Empire did for hundreds of years, all the hogwash about 'bringing civilization to backward countries' and ' spreading the gospel' were nonsense propaganda for the gullible.

 

" Let's invade anywhere we can find that doesn't have an armed force able to defend themselves and steal all their stuff. " Doesn't really have a particularly nice ring to it does it?

 

No different to the French, Spanish, German, Russian etc it's the US turn.

 

America will continue to involve itself whilst ever it believes there is an advantage of some kind to be gained.

 

Thats unfair,the Yanks are immensely generous, what about Haiti? What about the billions they pumped into South east Asia after the Tsunami? The Marshall plan? This are acts of huge kindness and magnanimity.

 

Largely unreported but none the less done with no obvious advantage to the giver.

 

---------- Post added 07-04-2015 at 11:19 ----------

 

Christ on a bike! Pilgrim? Dude?

 

Are you for real?

 

How in blue blazes do you expect anyone to come up with a satisfactory solution to the absolute pile of crap that we have managed to get ourselves into, in a large part through our own actions?

 

If anyone could they wouldn't be sat discussing it on a forum would they?

 

They'd be running the 'free world' wouldn't they?

 

There is no obvious solution.

 

' past history and how it all came about not to be mentioned'

 

Yes, that'll work.

 

If it wasn't for past history we wouldn't have the problem would we?

 

Do you think the other side will agree to that proviso?

 

The motto which should be engraved on all government buildings involved in this is;

 

'Semper in excretia, solon profundum variat'

 

All we are doing is giving our opinions which are worthless.

 

However I will give this opinion, not only are drones not a solution they are exacerbating the problem.

 

Try to put yourself in the place of an innocent civilian in one of the areas concerned.

 

You are not a terrorist, you just want to live a peaceful life and raise your kids.

 

You have never been out of the country and have no knowledge or particular interest in foreign lands.

 

Then one day out of the blue some young guy who has never left his country operates a drone from over 7,000 miles away and kills half your family.

 

Now you're interested.

 

People who support drone strikes are not thinking it through, if you could 100% guarantee that only combatants and terrorists would be killed they would be a brilliant solution.

 

They can't and never will, so what they are actually doing is creating new terrorists and increasing the problem.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gq.com%2Fnews-politics%2Fbig-issues%2F201311%2Fdrone-uav-pilot-assassination&ei=AKkjVa_iDYLsasT9gfAF&usg=AFQjCNHAcXEgZjjPSF7mBIzyfxQHgiXR6Q&bvm=bv.89947451,d.d2s

 

I agree with much of the above, allowing this to be the case, what do we do now and for the forseeable future? I feel we should protect ourselves ruthlessly, the use of drones, boots on the ground etc whatever it takes. Me must get the terrorist on the back foot quickly, this is the biggest threat to our lives and liberty since Hitler.

 

There is no compromising here, no appeasement. The only solution is the kill them before they kill us.

[Zamo]

And how do you stop types like ISIS committing terrorist acts in your own back yard? They are out there. We can either get rid of them before they get to us or sit on our duffs and wait for more to come to us.

 

That is unfortunately a Hydra strategy... you cut off one head and two grow back. Just think how a Muslim invasion (to save us from our heathen ways) would unite people of different religions and politics in the West... we'd all unite and fight against the common enemy. It is no different for Muslims when the West seeks to impose itself on the Muslim world.

 

The West needs to mind its' own business and stop offering itself up as the enemy. Seal up the borders and leave them to it.

[mjw47]

Have you ever heard the expression ' There's no such thing as a free lunch ' ?

 

Yes America has been known to act in a reasonable and magnanimous manner but don't think for a minute that it hasn't been noted and at some future date the debt will be called in.

 

Absolutely nothing wrong with that by the way, every country's government's first priority is - or should be - to the people of the country.

 

And as world powers go the USA has been one of the more reasonable ones, which is damning with faint praise but I'd still rather have them as top dog than one or two others I can think of.

 

As to what we should do now and in the foreseeable future well that's the problem.

 

All wars eventually end with talks, agreements and treaties and once one side has the upper hand or an obvious stalemate is arrived at the combatants can come to some arrangement and everyone able to can go home.

 

That's talking about your bog standard war of course.

 

What we have here is something different not seen since the middle ages.

 

Religious fundamentalism of any kind isn't really something that you can come to an amicable compromise with.

 

Indiscriminate attacks involving innocent bystanders and cases of mistaken identity only serve to fan the flames.

 

This plays right into the hands of the insurgents, I have no doubt that they want us to kill innocents, it serves their purpose. Nothing would suit them more than to make this a straight out war between Christians and Muslims.

 

We have to avoid at all costs peeing off more people than we already have and try to contain the problem as much as possible, a lot easier said than done.

 

Also they are growing stronger on a daily basis, at $2 to $3 million a day income from black market oil how long before they're sending drones in our direction?

[Zamo]

Also they are growing stronger on a daily basis, at $2 to $3 million a day income from black market oil how long before they're sending drones in our direction?

 

A very long time because they have no air force or navy and can't buy one. They pose no military threat to us in the West.

[loraward]

A very long time because they have no air force or navy and can't buy one. They pose no military threat to us in the West.

 

A laptop owned by an Isis militant appears to show the group’s plans to develop and use chemical weapons including the bubonic plague.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/seized-isis-laptop-reveals-wmd-plans-9702030.html