35bn trident costs..what a waste of money

[mjw47]

What guidance from the US?

 

The subs have an inertial navigation system, they know exactly where they are without GPS especially since GPS doesnt work underwater. If they can they will surface and get a better fix to improve positioning by a few hundred meters but that's not necessary.

 

Once launched the missile goes into the boost phase and then the MIRV bus seperates after the boost phase. The missiles position is setup by means of a star sighter that looks for specific bright stars like Sirius and Canopus. They are used to position the bus for release of warheads which are then allowed to fall ballistically onto the target.

 

There is no input needed into the system once the sub sails. At that point the captain and four other officers can launch. ni input needed, no codes, no secret handshake nothing. If Radio 4 goes offline and they cannot raise base, they will follow the orders and launch as per directions given by the NCA.

 

There is no input into the missile once launched. If there were, someone could theoretically get in and disable it.

 

Once launched, the missile is not stoppable. It needs no input from anyone, anywhere at all. It is fantastically single minded in that respect.

 

You apparently know quite a lot about it however that was not my impression.

 

Where I got the incorrect idea was from the final sentence of the second paragraph in this link.

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CFAQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2Fpolitics%2F45658%2Fnonsense-heart-britains-independent-nuclear-defence&ei=CyYpVdUGw7pRqtmDmAM&usg=AFQjCNHg-PBgZq90J5JgLyg1MOBIdgP7NQ&bvm=bv.90491159,d.d24&cad=rja

 

I misread that as meaning that satellite guidance was required whilst the missile was in flight.

 

Take your word for the reality of the situation but it still doesn't alter the fact that the system isn't independent in the true sense which is my main point.

 

Being independent providing we keep the Americans happy isn't my idea of independence.

 

By the way, is there an abort function on these missiles or is it irrevocable?

[Obelix]

Nothing is needed once it's launched.

 

A GPS fix to improve accuracy is a good idea by the sub but it'll only improve matters by a few hundred meters at most. A Vanguard sub can submerge off Faslane and surface anywhere on the planet (well in the sea obviously) and only be a few hundred meters out.

 

There is no abort facility. Once the keys are turned and the missile is launched it is going to hit the target.

[mjw47]

Nothing is needed once it's launched.

 

A GPS fix to improve accuracy is a good idea by the sub but it'll only improve matters by a few hundred meters at most. A Vanguard sub can submerge off Faslane and surface anywhere on the planet (well in the sea obviously) and only be a few hundred meters out.

 

There is no abort facility. Once the keys are turned and the missile is launched it is going to hit the target.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Why did I get a mental picture of Slim Pickens in Dr Strangelove astride the H bomb on his way down giving a rebel yell when I read that last sentence?

[woodmally]

So we are paying £35billion we don't have, so ze germanese don't have to ??

 

No wonder they don't want us to leave the EU

 

The Germans arnt allowed to have a huge defence force. I think some past conflict they were involved in put paid to that one same for the Japanese.

[The Joker]

The Germans arnt allowed to have a huge defence force. I think some past conflict they were involved in put paid to that one . . .

 

The 1990 World Cup semi-final ?

[I1L2T3]

Only when your opinion is based on the false premiss that they are useless and can't be used without American authorisation.

 

Its pretty obvious they are never going to be launched without authorisation from NATO. The systems will probably also be excluded from targeting vast areas of territory across the planet, basically the USA, any US ally or major trade partner. Trident is designed to attack Russia and we will never do that by ourselves. Even if we did we have enough firepower to damage maybe 20 Russian cities but not near enough to destroy Russia as a country. Russia has enough to burn us to a crisp 100 times over and kill everybody on this island. We'd only take them on as part of NATO..

[mjw47]

Its pretty obvious they are never going to be launched without authorisation from NATO. The systems will probably also be excluded from targeting vast areas of territory across the planet, basically the USA, any US ally or major trade partner. Trident is designed to attack Russia and we will never do that by ourselves. Even if we did we have enough firepower to damage maybe 20 Russian cities but not near enough to destroy Russia as a country. Russia has enough to burn us to a crisp 100 times over and kill everybody on this island. We'd only take them on as part of NATO..

 

Correct, and if it ever came to that we'd all be dead anyway.

 

It used to be described as Mutually Assured Destruction and known by its acronym MAD, the most accurate acronym ever.

 

We simply can't afford to continue with this complete nonsense, if other countries wish to let them have at it.

 

By all means keep an efficient defence force and a rapid reaction capability but scrap the nuclear element.

 

If Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Norway can get by without feeling the need for nuclear armament then so can we.

 

It seems to me that the real reason for wasting all this money is so that our beloved leaders have a seat at the top table and can hang around with the big boys and feel important.

 

Well we can no longer afford to indulge their egos and it's time to cut our cloth.

 

We would still be part of NATO so they'd still get their photo ops.

 

Not being part of the nuclear club hasn't done Germany any harm has it?

[I1L2T3]

Correct, and if it ever came to that we'd all be dead anyway.

 

It used to be described as Mutually Assured Destruction and known by its acronym MAD, the most accurate acronym ever.

 

We simply can't afford to continue with this complete nonsense, if other countries wish to let them have at it.

 

By all means keep an efficient defence force and a rapid reaction capability but scrap the nuclear element.

 

If Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden and Norway can get by without feeling the need for nuclear armament then so can we.

 

It seems to me that the real reason for wasting all this money is so that our beloved leaders have a seat at the top table and can hang around with the big boys and feel important.

 

Well we can no longer afford to indulge their egos and it's time to cut our cloth.

 

We would still be part of NATO so they'd still get their photo ops.

 

Not being part of the nuclear club hasn't done Germany any harm has it?

 

When we first started developing these weapons it was the 1950s and based on expertise from helping the Americans develop them from the 1930s onwards.

 

We were a major power then but that was 60, 70, 80 years ago. Things are very different now.

 

Like you say I'd rather we had a properly funded professional armed forces designed to protect our country and legitimate interests abroad.

 

It comes to something when we can waste money on nukes but we need a charity like Help for Heroes to properly look after our people in the armed forces.

[milquetoast1]

If you think £3bn a year is a waste of money, then what about the £375bn spent on quantitive easing since 2009?

 

Any argument for "waste of money" is very subjective when that money results in jobs.

[loraward]

Its pretty obvious they are never going to be launched without authorisation from NATO. The systems will probably also be excluded from targeting vast areas of territory across the planet, basically the USA, any US ally or major trade partner. Trident is designed to attack Russia and we will never do that by ourselves. Even if we did we have enough firepower to damage maybe 20 Russian cities but not near enough to destroy Russia as a country. Russia has enough to burn us to a crisp 100 times over and kill everybody on this island. We'd only take them on as part of NATO..

 

It isn't designed to attack anyone, its a deterrent, the idea is that it deters another country from attacking and destroying the UK because they know that we will still have the capability to fire back.