Why is there so much animosity towards cyclists in Sheffield?

[mattleonard]

Of course, because cyclists don't really have much opportunity to speed, unless in a 20 zone or down a steep hill in a 30 zone.

 

How is that relevant? Are you suggesting that speeding should be ignored since cyclists rarely have the opportunity to do it.

 

I would say I see maybe 8 to 10 cyclists per day. But only around 1 or 2 of those sightings are on the approach to red lights, so I would say around 50% to 100% per day run red when presented with the opportunity. I see many times more cars at the front at red lights, presented with the same opportunity. I see maybe 1 car a day run a red, out of at least dozens with an opportunity to do so.

 

It's very interesting that you post this, since I was going to respond to the fallacy of your "opportunity" logic. I freely admit that some cyclists go through red lights, and I abhor it when they do so. But they generally do so in a very different manner to motorists. They make an observation about the state of the traffic and/or pedestrians and then choose to go. But the interesting thing is, that any cyclist in a queue will have the opportunity to overtake, get to the front and do so. Yet in my experience, more often than not, they don't.

 

When it comes to motorists, as others have said, their red light running is generally taking the attitude that if they arrive within 2-3 seconds of the light having turned to red, then it's a reasonable risk to take - without reference to the state of the traffic at the junction. Opportunity-wise, it's only the driver at the front of the queue at any given moment who gets that opportunity - and often they'll take it.

 

I actually only encountered one red light this morning. The three cars at the front all ignored it. The two cyclists in the queue both waited patiently. That's not an unusual scenario.

[JFKvsNixon]

It is a regularly occurrence for me to stop for a traffic light turning red and for the car behind me to overtake and shoot through. It can be unsettling..

[mattleonard]

Besides, running reds is, in most cases, much more dangerous than speeding.

 

Wow, I'm stunned by this one. It would be laughable if it didn't show up such a terrifying attitude.

 

Do you really think that the admittedly idiotic behaviour I described above of cyclists going through red lights is more dangerous than a motorist choosing to illegally increase their thinking distance, braking distance and the severity of the damage they will cause if they hit someone? Perhaps you should explain that to some of the parents of the 1500 or so pedestrian children killed in RTAs each year?

 

Then of course there's the fact that it isn't just cyclists who do go through red lights. Many motorists do so, and in some cases it is as a result of the fact that they are already speeding; and many of those who weren't speeding, decide to then do so in order to ensure that they get through the red light.

 

No doubt having betrayed your real state of mind you'll claim that your assessment was "obviously just bants".

[Cyclone]

I don't see drivers waiting at red lights who then set off while it is still red (but see plenty going on the red & amber). However, I regularly see drivers carrying on against an amber (when it would have been easy and safe to stop), and quite a few who are so far into the amber that it is already red by the time they pass.

 

I've noticed on occasions where I 'could' stop by braking hard, but instead decide to run the amber as it's safer, I often then watch one or two cars behind me also continue... Now if I could stop with hard braking, then they could have easily stopped. (Driving, not cycling obviously).

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 10:23 ----------

 

I think a drivers attitude towards cyclists tells us a lot. In general it seems to be dangerous and aggressive drivers, with attitude problems, who dislike cyclists.

[truman]

I think a drivers attitude towards cyclists tells us a lot. In general it seems to be dangerous and aggressive drivers, with attitude problems, who dislike cyclists.

 

I think these drivers dislike anyone else on the road..not just cyclists..

[Eater Sundae]

I think these drivers dislike anyone else on the road..not just cyclists..

 

No, there is also the attitude, quoted by someone earlier on here, that (to paraphrase, in case I forget the exact quote)

 

Some will forgive their friend for eating with his fingers, while criticizing his enemy for using the wrong knife and fork.

 

I think it is a good analogy.

 

Some drivers see other drivers as like them, so can accept when they are held up by a queue of similar cars, but are immediately outraged by something "different", ie a cyclist, that is in their way.

 

Edit. And the same applies to red light jumping. They see nothing wrong with accelerating through on amber or even when it is just red, and accept it from others. meanwhile, they don't have the opportunity to filter through to the front when stopped at lights, so look less kindly on those who can. If the cyclist (who may well also have been prevented from making full use of the ASL box due to the front driver entering it) then sets off early to give himself a head start, this results in even more hatred.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Eater Sundae

[WiseOwl182]

Wow, I'm stunned by this one. It would be laughable if it didn't show up such a terrifying attitude.

 

Do you really think that the admittedly idiotic behaviour I described above of cyclists going through red lights is more dangerous than a motorist choosing to illegally increase their thinking distance, braking distance and the severity of the damage they will cause if they hit someone? Perhaps you should explain that to some of the parents of the 1500 or so pedestrian children killed in RTAs each year?

 

Then of course there's the fact that it isn't just cyclists who do go through red lights. Many motorists do so, and in some cases it is as a result of the fact that they are already speeding; and many of those who weren't speeding, decide to then do so in order to ensure that they get through the red light.

 

No doubt having betrayed your real state of mind you'll claim that your assessment was "obviously just bants".

 

Calm down dear! Of course I didn't mean that. I meant, by all road users, generally, running reds is more dangerous than speeding. I wasn't comparing an extreme example of a cyclist running a red at an empty pedestrian crossing versus a car doing 70mph in a 20 zone at school closing time.

[mattleonard]

Some drivers see other drivers as like them, so can accept when they are held up by a queue of similar cars, but are immediately outraged by something "different", ie a cyclist, that is in their way.

 

That's definitely evidenced by those who claim it is reasonable for all cyclists to be tarnished by those who go through red lights and seem to not notice all the motorists who routinely do so themselves.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 10:40 ----------

 

I wasn't comparing an extreme example of a cyclist running a red at an empty pedestrian crossing versus a car doing 70mph in a 20 zone at school closing time.

 

Neither was I.

[onewheeldave]

....I freely admit that some cyclists go through red lights, and I abhor it when they do so. But they generally do so in a very different manner to motorists. They make an observation about the state of the traffic and/or pedestrians and then choose to go.....

 

A good observation. And, of course, cyclists are able to observe more than an equivalent motorist due to their riding position (high up and not limited by a bonnet- a car driver is always observing from further back than the cyclist).

[mattleonard]

A good observation. And, of course, cyclists are able to observe more than an equivalent motorist due to their riding position (high up and not limited by a bonnet- a car driver is always observing from further back than the cyclist).

 

I also made clear that I abhor such behaviour, and I don't believe it makes a cyclist safer.