Why is there so much animosity towards cyclists in Sheffield?

[JFKvsNixon]

And I don't. I'm falling victim to my own eyes seeing a high proportion of them run red lights. Since mattleonard rejected my kind offer, perhaps you would like to partake in some traffic light studies with me instead? We could set up camp near Hunters Bar, complete with clipboards. A fun day out by anyone's standards.

 

In my experience - I see very little cyclists going through red lights, less than one a week. I also see plenty of cars racing through the traffic lights just after they turned red, especially during rush hour.

 

So make of that what you will.

 

If we're talking about genuine going through a red light well after it's turned red, it's as rare for cars as it is for cycles.

[WiseOwl182]

In my experience - I see very little cyclists going through red lights, less than one a week. I also see plenty of cars racing through the traffic lights just after they turned red, especially during rush hour.

 

So make of that what you will.

 

If we're talking about genuine going through a red light well after it's turned red, it's as rare for cars as it is for cycles.

 

I think you're just being motorist-ist.

[JFKvsNixon]

I think you're just being motorist-ist.

 

You really do have it in for cyclists if you believe that an opinion that - it's as rare for cars as it is for bikes to run through red lights long after they've changed is evidence of someone being motorist-ist!

 

I would happily admit that my sample may be flawed as most of the lights are on busy junctions, so it would be difficult for anyone to go through on a red.

[mattleonard]

It's not fictional. We agree there is some degree of animosity towards cyclists. You cannot dispute my own observations as to the proportions of them that I see running red lights, because you don't travel with me. The conclusion is very real.

 

Funny, that's a completely different fictional conclusion to the one which I - and you - were talking about.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2015 at 23:07 ----------

 

If I feel any animosity towards cyclists, it is because I see a large proportion of them ignore red lights. Why do you think there is animosity?

 

The Ian Walker quote answered it very well. On that subject, it mentions underrepresentation of negative behaviours by one's own group - are you going to clarify whether you really believe - as you suggested earlier - that the 1500 or so pedestrian children killed each year in RTAs are generally hit by motorists who are driving at 70mph in a 20 zone?

Edited July 2, 2015 by mattleonard

[WiseOwl182]

are you going to clarify whether you really believe - as you suggested earlier - that the 1500 or so pedestrian children killed each year in RTAs are generally hit by motorists who are driving at 70mph in a 20 zone?

 

No, I wasn't responding to the 1,500 deaths point, as I hadn't seen that (and it doesn't relate to deaths from speeding specifically anyway). I was saying that speeding is less dangerous than running red lights. You tried to change that into me saying "cars speeding are less dangerous than cyclists running red lights", but that wasn't what I said. You mention Penistone Road - the limit is 30mph but driving along at 35mph isn't really any more dangerous (or 40mph, as Cyclone does). Running a red light on the same road is more dangerous (and yes, even if a cyclist does it).

[JFKvsNixon]

Dr Ian Walker - It’s just textbook prejudiced behaviour.

[mattleonard]

No, I wasn't responding to the 1,500 deaths point, as I hadn't seen that (and it doesn't relate to deaths from speeding specifically anyway.

 

That does make your original response when I made it very odd indeed then. Your apparent inability to see the posts you quote and reply to would explain many of your responses though. It might also explain you not seeing cyclists who don't go through red lights or motorists who do.

 

I was saying that speeding is less dangerous than running red lights. You tried to change that into me saying "cars speeding are less dangerous than cyclists running red lights", but that wasn't what I said.

 

Which is why I sought clarification by asking you directly that very question. Not to change what you had said but because if the specific case is false then it disproves the general case. And it's quite a relevant specific case given your claim that proportionally more red-light jumps are committed by cyclists and your recognition that most speeding is committed by motorists.

 

You mention Penistone Road - the limit is 30mph but driving along at 35mph isn't really any more dangerous (or 40mph, as Cyclone does).

 

That's rather odd, because this document makes pretty clear that it is.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 00:14 ----------

 

I see very little cyclists going through red lights,

 

On a more lighthearted note, this does make me imagine oompa lumpas, or maybe smurfs.

[Cyclone]

Despite your dislike of such behaviour and some of it certainly is lazy, there was some research done on traffic accidents regarding cyclists in London recently. A surprise discovery was that men were far less likely to get killed at traffic lights than women. The reason being because women didn't jump lights as often, they were more likely to be killed by a left turning vehicle. I believe this year, six out of the eight cyclist deaths have been female.

 

Occasionally I will skip around a traffic light junction on pavement, not because it is quicker, but because it is safer. Or because the traffic lights simply won't change for cyclists.

 

I'd draw a distinction between running a light entirely, and moving forwards as if there were an ASL at the light.

And there is a 3rd option as well, which is to not filter to the very front of the queue IF doing so puts you at the side of a lorry or bus.

Of course the pedestrian crossing that I observed whilst in London, and most of the traffic lights on Langsett Rd/Infirmary Rd, don't have left turns at all!

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:17 ----------

 

Does Monkey have some sort of neck injury that the rest of us don't know about?

 

He probably doesn't cycle along looking backwards... I only look if there's a reason.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:19 ----------

 

Nobody ever said they don't, nobody here has EVER condoned running red lights, period.

 

Its merely been pointed out that they are more likely to come out worse from a collision so they are taking a bigger risk than a car driver.

 

Actually OneWheelDave condones it.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:19 ----------

 

5,168 miles! Good on them, I say.

 

The HRMC approved rate for expenses for bike travel. I suppose the star would prefer that they'd driven and claimed 45p/mile whilst also increasing congestion?

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 08:22 ----------

 

And I don't. I'm falling victim to my own eyes seeing a high proportion of them run red lights. Since mattleonard rejected my kind offer, perhaps you would like to partake in some traffic light studies with me instead? We could set up camp near Hunters Bar, complete with clipboards. A fun day out by anyone's standards.

 

And I think you suffer from confirmation bias. You ignore the constant poor behaviour you see from drivers because you are a driver.

You pick up on (and maybe obsess a little) on the behaviour you see from cyclists because you aren't one, and they're making better progress than you.

[smilersarah]

Perhaps you need to broaden your idea of what is possible and have a look across the sea.

 

A few images to illustrate:

 

Imagine the crate replaced with a childseat: there is a seat on the back already, that is three kids on the bike with no hassle what so ever.

 

Usually it looks like this though, with two kids, most common form.

 

Bike specifically designed to transport three kids and shopping, rare.

 

prehaps you have no conception of kids being crushed under a lorry with no protection whatsoever??? what lunatic does this on a busy urban st??? in a park maybe or a private road:loopy:

[Squiggs]

prehaps you have no conception of kids being crushed under a lorry with no protection whatsoever??? what lunatic does this on a busy urban st??? in a park maybe or a private road:loopy:

 

Probably someone with more sense than careering down the M1 at 90 with Baby On Board sign swinging in the rear window

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 10:22 ----------

 

In my experience - I see very little cyclists going through red lights, less than one a week. I also see plenty of cars racing through the traffic lights just after they turned red, especially during rush hour.

 

So make of that what you will.

 

If we're talking about genuine going through a red light well after it's turned red, it's as rare for cars as it is for cycles.

 

That sounds very dangerous - small wee cyclists are harder to spot!