Why is there so much animosity towards cyclists in Sheffield?

[alchemist]

When a car races the lights at 20, 30 0r forty miles per hour it is a million times more dangerous than a cyclist tinkering through when safe to do so.

 

When safe to do so????? So you are saying that its OK to jump red lights if nothing is coming?

 

I would love to see how THAT goes down with the police.

 

Also, is it OK for a car to creep through a red light then? At what speed should it become illeagal?

[Cyclone]

The point is over there, Cyclone ---->

 

You missed it, I'm afraid.

 

You missed the <irony> or <sarcasm> tags, so I didn't get it

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:26 ----------

 

I wish I had a pound for every time I have seen a numpty on a pushbike think that red lights don't apply to them. This is prevalent at the end of Ecclesfield Wood bottom at the Meadowhall end. When confronted by a red light here the majority go onto the pavement round inside of traffic light and run gauntlet of the cross traffic whose light is on green. How some of them haven't been knocked off or killed I can only assume is down to the skill of the car driver. When I was working and using that route this was a daily occurrence. Of course if they did get hit the car driver would be at fault

 

No they wouldn't. Particularly if a cyclist is crossing from pavement to pavement through traffic that has a green light.

[sheff71]

Im quite sure people think the same about cyclists in Leeds, and Manchester, and Birmingham etc...

 

Why the opening poster thinks it is a Sheffield-specific hatred is beyond me.

 

Let's be fair though, the hatred from cyclists towards drivers (many of whom are also cyclists) is just as bitter as the other way round - it's not just a one way thing.

 

Just as there are sensible drivers and careless drivers, there are plenty of seasoned, experienced cyclists (those that are on this thread) on the road - but also many who really shouldn't just be allowed to go straight onto the roads (and it's many of these that give cyclists a bad reputation).

 

It just seems crazy that drivers can't take their tests until 17, and when they're learning to drive they have to have L plates on - giving other road users an indication it's an inexperienced driver, so they can adjust accordingly.

 

However, anyone can just pick up a bike and without any experience of cycling in traffic or on the roads, can go straight out and do that...not even having had to look at the highway code. It's nothing to do with drivers need a licence so cyclists should do also - it's so that other road users can have some confidence that the cyclist up ahead is aware of their responsibilities on the road too. There are enough inconsiderate or abusive road users on all sides as it is already.

 

Cars are here for good - and so are cycles...so there's got to be some kind of middle ground to work together for safer roads for all users - not just cyclists or motorists.

 

The much used argument that making cyclists do some kind of test or training before they go out onto the main roads is a barrier to them using the road... if someone who wants to be a cyclist on the major roads isn't prepared to spend just a little time with a more experienced cyclist, just until they get a feel of the road conditions - then I'd be worried that other obstacles, such as red lights, might also be too much of an inconvenience to them too, with that attitude.

 

Just increasing the number of cyclists on the road with ill-prepared novices can't be a good thing, and will just add to the number of incidents on the roads, and no doubt injuries/deaths would increase too. If you're going to spend hundreds of pounds on a flash bike, what's another fiver or so on top of that, if it helps prepare cyclists better?

[JFKvsNixon]

When safe to do so????? So you are saying that its OK to jump red lights if nothing is coming?

 

I would love to see how THAT goes down with the police.

 

Also, is it OK for a car to creep through a red light then? At what speed should it become illeagal?

 

It probably goes down as well as drivers speeding, and we all know how many do that.

 

This tit for tat war could go on for ever. Can't we all just admit that there are good and bad drivers, and good and bad cyclists, and also can we stop trying to hold all cyclists accountable for the actions of the bad cyclists?

[Cyclone]

I think someone was taking the urine, and you fell for it Well done

 

Ah well, I'm not perfect.

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:32 ----------

 

No I just think low emission cars should pay some too. Yes they dont pollute but they use the roads to drive from A to B and the roads have to be paid for.

 

That's what general taxation is for. Otherwise horses, scooters, skateboards and pedestrians would all need to pay road tax as well!

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:35 ----------

 

Let's be fair though, the hatred from cyclists towards drivers (many of whom are also cyclists) is just as bitter as the other way round - it's not just a one way thing.

Not true (at least for this cyclist and motorist). I only hate people who endanger my life.

 

Just as there are sensible drivers and careless drivers, there are plenty of seasoned, experienced cyclists (those that are on this thread) on the road - but also many who really shouldn't just be allowed to go straight onto the roads (and it's many of these that give cyclists a bad reputation).

 

It just seems crazy that drivers can't take their tests until 17, and when they're learning to drive they have to have L plates on - giving other road users an indication it's an inexperienced driver, so they can adjust accordingly.

 

However, anyone can just pick up a bike and without any experience of cycling in traffic or on the roads, can go straight out and do that...not even having had to look at the highway code. It's nothing to do with drivers need a licence so cyclists should do also - it's so that other road users can have some confidence that the cyclist up ahead is aware of their responsibilities on the road too. There are enough inconsiderate or abusive road users on all sides as it is already.

 

Cars are here for good - and so are cycles...so there's got to be some kind of middle ground to work together for safer roads for all users - not just cyclists or motorists.

The good example from the Netherlands is to minimise barriers to cycling, the more cyclists there are, the safer they are. Most cyclists aren't keen on endangering their own life, it's basic self preservation.

 

The much used argument that making cyclists do some kind of test or training before they go out onto the main roads is a barrier to them using the road... if someone who wants to be a cyclist on the major roads isn't prepared to spend just a little time with a more experienced cyclist, just until they get a feel of the road conditions - then I'd be worried that other obstacles, such as red lights, might also be too much of an inconvenience to them too, with that attitude.

It's a very good argument against it. Barriers decrease uptake, and lower numbers increase the danger.

 

Just increasing the number of cyclists on the road with ill-prepared novices can't be a good thing, and will just add to the number of incidents on the roads, and no doubt injuries/deaths would increase too. If you're going to spend hundreds of pounds on a flash bike, what's another fiver or so on top of that, if it helps prepare cyclists better?

It is a good thing, because they stop being novices quite quickly and everyone gets safer as cycle numbers increase.

[sheff71]

Ah well, I'm not perfect.

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:32 ----------

 

 

That's what general taxation is for. Otherwise horses, scooters, skateboards and pedestrians would all need to pay road tax as well!

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:35 ----------

 

Not true (at least for this cyclist and motorist). I only hate people who endanger my life.

The good example from the Netherlands is to minimise barriers to cycling, the more cyclists there are, the safer they are. Most cyclists aren't keen on endangering their own life, it's basic self preservation.

It's a very good argument against it. Barriers decrease uptake, and lower numbers increase the danger.

It is a good thing, because they stop being novices quite quickly and everyone gets safer as cycle numbers increase.

 

Most drivers also aren't keen on endangering their own life, either - or anyone else for that matter.

[Cyclone]

I fail to see your point?

 

You were claiming that cyclists cycle badly because they don't know what to do. I suggested that most don't want to endanger themselves and so you are wrong.

 

I agree that most drivers don't want to endanger themselves either, that's why they avoid running into cars most of the time. They seem to be less concerned about bikes though, as that doesn't endanger them, it only kills someone else!

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 11:49 ----------

 

You also said this

However, anyone can just pick up a bike and without any experience of cycling in traffic or on the roads, can go straight out and do that...not even having had to look at the highway code. It's nothing to do with drivers need a licence so cyclists should do also - it's so that other road users can have some confidence that the cyclist up ahead is aware of their responsibilities on the road too. There are enough inconsiderate or abusive road users on all sides as it is already.

So it's clear that being taught to use the road doesn't stop people being inconsiderate or abusive (or bad at it).

[dutch]

Edited April 23, 2015 by dutch

[Eater Sundae]

I dont think that its just Sheffield that hates cyclists. From my perspective its down to a couple of things - Firstly I can think of several other cities where cyclists are not popular, however there are also cities that have more tolerance to cyclists ( York for one), and try to create a cycling friendly zone, and try to be accommodating.

 

SCC on the other hand dont give a hoot & instead try to push public transport down peoples necks at every available opportunity. Sheffield also has the worst roads i have ever seen from tarmacking, to badly placed junctions, confusing traffic light placings, badly placed pedestrian crossings and this is across the city. Its not in just one particular area.

 

As a cyclist (fair weather )& a driver- i have experienced both sides of the coin. I quite often see cyclists run red lights or come close to knocking a pedestrian down ( this also happened to me - crossing on a toucan crossing near pure gym? well i think that's the name of it. Lights were on red myself plus others were crossing..cars had stopped but cyclist decided he wasnt going too & promptly pretty much nearly ploughed me along with other crossers down:|). Its because of goons like this, that give other cyclists a bad reputation. However i do think they are a smaller percentage of the cycler go'ers.

 

The other issue is drivers lack of patience - most drivers are desperate to just get past a cyclist full stop, even if circumstances are not ideal and the best thing the driver could do is just hang back a little until the road becomes clearer of traffic or until they get a better view (if on a blind bend - the number of cars i see overtaking cyclists on a blind corner is shocking). Hanging on a few seconds is not going to make a blind bit of difference to end journey time. On top of that you have a lot of drivers who dont give enough space when overtaking , and pull back in way too soon and then its a close shave as to whether you get sent flying or not.

 

With regards to road tax - i would imagine most cyclists are also car owners. So they would pay Road Tax already. I also dont see how it would ever be possible to police a tax for cyclists?

 

I commute northbound on the A61 through Grenoside out towards M1 junction 36, and regularly pass a couple of cyclists, sometimes more. I often have to wait until there is a break in the traffic coming the other way so that I can give the cyclist a wide berth when I overtake. I may have to wait a while - although it may seem to be a long time, it is typically usually only a few seconds. I can't understand the need some motorists have to squeeze past the cyclists when there is something coming the other way.

 

And the impact of being held up by the cyclist? I still usually catch up with the car in front either near the Jet Station or, at worst, I join them in the queue at the McDonalds roundabout.

[hicksy3]

Car users would be much more forgiving if those pesky cyclists actually paid road tax.

 

Please explain to me how I can claim this mythical reduction in road tax. I left my car at home today and rode my bike into work. According to the widely-accepted, fourth-power law, I will have done somewhere between 1000 and 10,000 times less damage to the road/path surface doing this.

 

So, will there be a nice fat cheque from DVLA waiting for me on my doormat when I get home?

 

Of course, if you want I will gladly pay 90p (100th of my car tax, at least ten times more than I should proportionally have to) to DVLA to pay for the damage I've done to the roads, only there doesn't seem to be any way of doing this.

 

Changez le disque!