Cyclone Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 No, one survey was claimed to be of dubious independence, which I will accept, the other was by YouGov and cannot be readily dismissed just because you don't like the results. I can't find your original links, was this the yougov one? https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/21/London-cyclists-red-lights/ That's specifically about London. (There's a historical thread somewhere where I argue with Jezzy that many cyclists in London run red lights, it's endemic there from my observations. Sheffield is entirely different). When it comes to running red lights, a majority (53%) of London cyclists avoid the practice altogether. But a significant group – 35% – admit that they at least ‘occasionally’ ignore red lights at traffic lights. This is a survey of cyclists in London. The Sunday times comes up with a 1/10 figure http://road.cc/content/news/98721-1-10-cyclists-jump-red-lights-says-sunday-times You can see from the details that it's a very small survey and based on that shouldn't be considered to be statistically relevant. Other self reporting surveys have show drivers to jump red lights 14% of the time... Higher than the 10% of cyclists from this (small) survey; STOPPING AT JUNCTIONS 14% of drivers jump a red light at least twice a month – Direct Line survey, August 2011 10% of cyclists found to jump red lights – Sunday Times operation, November 2013 There's also these results Between 21%† and 31%‡ of drivers admit to using a handheld phone while driving (another 17% use hands-free, noted in article to be shown to be more dangerous than drink-driving) – †Direct Line survey, March 2012, ‡RAC Report on Motoring, 2013 23%† of drivers admit to texting at the wheel, including 44%‡ of young drivers – †RAC Report on Motoring 2012, ‡Direct Line survey, March 2012 11% of drivers admit to accessing email or social media whilst driving – RAC Report on Motoring 2012 None of which justifies anyone jumping a light. I wish cyclists wouldn't do it. Because then all the holier than you motorists wouldn't have this to justify their dangerous and irrational behaviour towards cyclists. But, it just goes to show that a minority of cyclists and a larger minority of motorists are perfectly willing to break the law if they can get away with it. Human nature I suppose. ---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 09:16 ---------- Nevertheless, a cyclist on a crowded shared pathway should also really consider dismounting and pushing. That is self-evidently sensible and in keeping with the highway code. Or they could proceded at walking pace on the bike. In better control and taking up less room. Obviously in the spirit of sharing the pedestrians will also be taking into account that the pavement is there for cycles as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squiggs Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I was making a more general point about cyclists and pavements. If you take the time to read my posts properly, I'm sure that will become apparent to you. Nevertheless, a cyclist on a crowded shared pathway should also really consider dismounting and pushing. That is self-evidently sensible and in keeping with the highway code. Or, if you read my post that seemed to prompt this, decide that the cycle path is wholly unsuitable and get on the road Of course then the argument starts "there's a cycle path, why don't you use it" Which in the above means, "why don't you just be a pedestrian" This is why cyclists have to organise campaigns because in that scenario, there is nowhere for the cyclist. Damned either way by one set of opinion or the other. And of course because of being damn near knocked off by 50 something trying in vain to look 30 something clutching jewel encrusted mobile phone, accelerating through red lights and not concentrating on where she is pointing her chelsea tractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPrice Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'm perfectly happy with that since I don't wish to ride on the pavement. I understand why some cyclists will though, when the alternative is a high chance of a motorist killing them. You seem to be labouring under a misapprehension brought about by an attempt to read my mind instead of what I've written. Ditto your last paragraph. Still waiting for you to point out where you have read I am a motorist. If you can't then I assume you will be providing me with an apology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Are you not a motorist? I'm happy to be corrected if I've made that assumption and it's not true. What are you then? Not a motorist, not a cyclist. Is it safe to assume that you are a pedestrian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyPrice Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Are you not a motorist? I'm happy to be corrected if I've made that assumption and it's not true. What are you then? Not a motorist, not a cyclist. Is it safe to assume that you are a pedestrian? Why would you feel the need to assume anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 A survey is a survey. I agree that a survey is a survey. But you used the word "study". And it turns out that the actual results reveal a very different picture to the one which you presented. Plus the other one you choose to overlook was conducted by YouGov. I hadn't overlooked it, I just hadn't had time to look at it yet. There's plenty of research (including the 82% already mentioned, as well as many which haven't been mentioned) which you have not addressed. So by the same token you have clearly "overlooked" those. This is an interesting survey for starters. ---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 10:01 ---------- As for your unfounded and potentially libellous accusations that I break the law and run red lights in my car You need to do some research on libel law. ---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 10:04 ---------- Ps. To be absolutely clear and serious, in case you don't realise a joke, of course I'd not splash a cyclist and to your earlier question about motorists with road rage, they're idiots and nobody can reasonably condone such behaviour. I genuinely appreciate that. As far as I am aware you are the first motorist on this thread to have made such a statement. Having said that, I did also mention dangerous points-scoring manoeuvres, which you have already condoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Why would you feel the need to assume anything? Why are you answering a question with a question and avoiding answering... Are you not a motorist? I'm happy to be corrected if I've made that assumption and it's not true. What are you then? Not a motorist, not a cyclist. Is it safe to assume that you are a pedestrian? As to why I would assume that you are a pedestrian, it's because nearly everyone is. You could of course be in a minority which cannot walk, in which case you can say so. Or you could be avoiding answering because you are a motorist and you are a pedestrian... Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattleonard Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I've cited personal experience and two recent surveys to back this up, and the best you can come up with is "you're wrong". Your arrogance is breathtaking. I remember your personal experience - it was that at least 50% of cyclists go through a red light, on the basis that on your long commute on a given morning you had seen one do so. And it's interesting that you continue to cite a survey which showed a completely different result to the claim that you are making. ---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 10:19 ---------- Ditto your last paragraph. Still waiting for you to point out where you have read I am a motorist. If you can't then I assume you will be providing me with an apology. Are you a motorist? ---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 10:21 ---------- I'd be fascinated to know if all these motorists who are getting so het up about cycling on pavements (which the vast majority of cyclists have made clear that they do not do) have ever broken section 72 of the 1835 Highway Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalkleyIan Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 40 pages going round in circles .. meanwhile in the world outside today 2 stories came up that probably wont have a whole episode of You and Yours devoted to them or be all over social media. In both cases the driver either initially denied, or tried to cover up the evidence http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-32996033 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-32999770 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 The cyclists who read these stories won't jump to the conclusion that all motorists behave like this of course. Just a lethal minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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