Why is telling girls to be careful rape apologistic

[RootsBooster]

Those activities HAVE been advised against. Do some of you people live in a bubble?

And judges and police officers (amongst others) HAVE blamed victims, in open court!

 

Are we still talking about advice campaigns or are you talking about something else?

[anywebsite]

It's not just blaming the victims, it creates a sense of paranoia about rape in women who are scared to go out alone & think every man is a rapist. It may even make potential rapists more likely to see it as normal behaviour.

 

Taken to extreme you have women who can't leave the house without being accompanied & covered from head to toe, also higher rates of rape with rapists thinking it's ok to rape a woman if she's drunk, or alone, or immodestly dressed.

 

That poster would be fine without the 'Many sexual assaults could be prevented' line. They could if the police spent more time catching rapists & less time blaming victims.

Edited April 27, 2015 by anywebsite

[RootsBooster]

It's not just blaming the victims, it creates a sense of paranoia about rape in women who are scared to go out alone & think every man is a rapist. It may even make potential rapists more likely to see it as normal behaviour.

1- How (in your opinion) does it blame the victims?

2- Where do you get your information from about it causing paranoia?

 

Taken to extreme you have women who can't leave the house without being accompanied & covered from head to toe, also higher rates of rape with rapists thinking it's ok to rape a woman if she's drunk, or alone, or immodestly dressed.

 

That poster would be fine without the 'Many sexual assaults could be prevented' line.

I agree that many posters (not just about rape but all sorts of crimes) could be worded better, the line "many sexual assaults could be prevented" might be true (I suspect it would be more accurate if it said "some" rather than "many") but could be worded better.

 

They could if the police spent more time catching rapists & less time blaming victims.

The trouble with that is that a rapist isn't a rapist until he (or she) has raped somebody. In an ideal world you wouldn't have to take measures to try and prevent such things and even in our current world you shouldn't have to. It really doesn't hurt to try and reduce the risks though in the meantime.

Edited April 27, 2015 by RootsBooster

[Olive]

Those activities HAVE been advised against. Do some of you people live in a bubble?

And judges and police officers (amongst others) HAVE blamed victims, in open court!

 

But not in the poster campaign. And I don't think it was what the OP had in mind.

 

Some people do seem to be very confused about what constitutes activities that put people at increased risk. It's a shame, because it often derails discussions on the subject.

[Cyclone]

Often you read about police and other groups telling girls when they are out to stay in groups watch what they drink and generally be careful because of rapists.

 

Its the same as people telling me to keep my door locked or not leave valuables lying around. Its not saying that I am defending burglars or thieves its saying these scumbags are out there so be careful.

 

Yet whenever we give advice like the above to girls the feminists saying that we are apologising for rapists and we should stop rapists not advise girls to take care.

 

It doesn't make sense. Yes men shouldnt rape but while we are dealing with the scumbags we need to make the innocent are protected.

 

This is the OP. It doesn't mention a specific poster campaign. It does mention 2 specific changes to behaviour and 1 general one.

Both of the specifics feed into blaming the victim as follows;

 

"She didn't 'watch' what she drank, she was extremely drunk, it's her own fault she was raped"

"She went out/off alone, ignoring the advice to stay in a group, she shouldn't have put herself in that situation, it's partially her fault that she was raped".

 

In reality, in both cases, it's entirely the fault of the person committing the crime and in neither case is the advice helpful to anyone.

It's also harmful to those who have already been raped as it increases the risk of them blaming themselves, when in fact they are not to blame.

 

---------- Post added 27-04-2015 at 15:02 ----------

 

Of course women should be able to go to the pub

 

They should be able to go to the pub alone as well... Shouldn't they?

Edited April 27, 2015 by Cyclone

[RootsBooster]

This is the OP. It doesn't mention a specific poster campaign. It does mention 2 specific changes to behaviour and 1 general one.

Both of the specifics feed into blaming the victim as follows;

 

"She didn't 'watch' what she drank, she was extremely drunk, it's her own fault she was raped"

"She went out/off alone, ignoring the advice to stay in a group, she shouldn't have put herself in that situation, it's partially her fault that she was raped".

 

In reality, in both cases, it's entirely the fault of the person committing the crime and in neither case is the advice helpful to anyone.

It's also harmful to those who have already been raped as it increases the risk of them blaming themselves, when in fact they are not to blame.

For the past umpteen pages you and I have specifically been discussing awareness/advice campaigns.

 

Getting back on to that track, do you have a response for post #118 ?

 

 

ADDED: If you follow the continuity sequence we (including Olive) were talking about campaigns right up to post #120, where you changed direction. I don't think any of us disagree that victim-blaming is a problem in society, including the courts and police force.

Edited April 27, 2015 by RootsBooster

[Cyclone]

We disagree RB, I don't think that's going to change. I think that victim blaming is aided and abetted by giving women 'advice' on how to avoid rape, you don't. Neither of us is making any progress in convincing the other.

[RootsBooster]

We disagree RB, I don't think that's going to change. I think that victim blaming is aided and abetted by giving women 'advice' on how to avoid rape, you don't. Neither of us is making any progress in convincing the other.

 

Yeah, but.... do you have a response for post #118?

[Cyclone]

No, I don't. I would have posted one if I did. Responding to it will just extend this thread and we are getting nowhere. I've made my point, you've made yours, we don't agree.

[ronthenekred]

Yeah, but.... do you have a response for post #118?

 

For what it's worth I'll give it a shot..

 

You mean like "Don't take sweets from strangers"?

That's obviously victim-blaming, right?

The focus should be fully on paedophiles and we shouldn't, in the meantime, give any advice to kids and parents on how to reduce risks?

 

Risk assessment is based on knowledge and maturity. Children by definition are at risk or vulnerable simply because of their immaturity. By advising adults you are making the presumption some adults are children or childlike. The result of that presumption is either patronizing or simply seen as ' good advice'.

 

Adults are not guardian's of adults, we certainly are of our children though..until they reach a certain maturity or age that is. They then become guardian's of themselves. The vast majority of adults understand risk or threat whether they are attacked or not, children don't. There are no campaigns focusing on children on how to avoid predators. There are no campaigns on how to avoid being abused by your 'loved' ones in the home. Why? Because it attacks the ethos of the 'family'. As guardians we guide our children to a cut-off point, or do we continually tell them to look left and right well into adulthood simply because other adults also get knocked down?

 

The only thing that addressed or highlighted the issue with children was Ester Rantzen's campaign for children to phone in if that child was being abused, which only addressed the after effects and not the cause, the abuser. Advising children an advising grown adults are not comparable IMO.

 

Question: If you and your partner climb a steep hill and you are ahead finding it a little tricky, do you reach back with your hand outstretched offering help? If yes why? If no, why not?

Edited April 27, 2015 by ronthenekred