Why is telling girls to be careful rape apologistic

[sgtkate]

The mugger.

 

But surely if he'd only taken the advice of not carrying a gold bar down a dark alley while drunk huh?

 

---------- Post added 28-04-2015 at 17:17 ----------

 

http://www.ias.org.uk/Alcohol-knowle...tatistics.aspx

According to the 2011/12 CSEW, there were 917,000 violent incidents where the victim believed the offender(s) to be under the influence of alcohol, accounting for 47% of violent offences committed that year.

 

 

Quote:

 

http://www.survive.org.uk/date-rape.html

Many rapists ply their victims with alcohol before assaulting them. Statistics show that 55% of all date rape victims had been drinking or were drunk when raped. A staggering 80% of rapists had been drinking before they raped.

 

 

Quote:

 

https://brown.edu/Student_Services/H...rape_drugs.php

 

 

55% of female students and 75% of male students involved in acquaintance rape admit to having been drinking or using drugs when the incident occurred.

90% of all campus rapes occur when alcohol has been used by either the assailant or the victim.

But millions of people drink without committing crime so it wouldn't be justifiable to ban alcohol.

 

So advising everyone to drink less might encourage some people to drink less, the likley result is a cut in crime including rapes.

 

All of those links are saying that alcohol was drunk by the rapist as well as the victim or the rapist was drunk on their own. So what you are actually saying is that if men didn't get drunk there'd be less rapes. I agree.

[Olive]

 

Children by default need protecting and advising. Adults don't in the same way, unless you wish me to ring a doorbell every night advising to unplug the telly, stump out a fag and wear a condom before the missus gets jumped on. Not that I would, honest...that would be patronising, rude and downright annoying.

 

 

 

Adults are the targets of advice campaigns all the time. There's lots of research into public health for instance on what messages work and what don't. Campaigns aimed at smokers to help them stop smoking, safe sex campaigns, I've seen campaigns aimed at young people warning of the dangers of chlamydia (posters in the ladies loos - very possibly in the gents' loos as well, but I didn't go in there to check!).

Edited April 28, 2015 by Olive

[loraward]

But surely if he'd only taken the advice of not carrying a gold bar down a dark alley while drunk huh?

 

---------- Post added 28-04-2015 at 17:17 ----------

 

 

All of those links are saying that alcohol was drunk by the rapist as well as the victim or the rapist was drunk on their own. So what you are actually saying is that if men didn't get drunk there'd be less rapes. I agree.

 

That's right if he had heeded the advice not to carry his gold bar he wouldn't have been mugged.

 

Yes if men stopped drinking rape crime would fall.

If women stopped drinking but not men, it would fall but not as much.

And if they both stopped drinking it would give the best results.

[Olive]

Does anyone think that maybe it's the generalist nature of some of the advice that can be misconstrued?

 

I'm wondering if hard, practical advice was been dished out then maybe it would be more acceptable?

 

Do you remember when there seemed to be a spate of drink-spiking going on? Some clubs and student unions were giving out swizzle sticks that could detect certain substances in drinks. The advice was not to leave your drinks unattended. That seems to me to be sensible, particularly if spiking is known to be an issue in a certain area. It's still modifying your behaviour when you shouldn't have to though.

[Cyclone]

Adults are the targets of advice campaigns all the time. There's lots of research into public health for instance on what messages work and what don't. Campaigns aimed at smokers to help them stop smoking, safe sex campaigns, I've seen campaigns aimed at young people warning of the dangers of chlamydia (posters in the ladies loos - very possibly in the gents' loos as well, but I didn't go in there to check!).

 

And the 'victims' of obesity or other public health problems are blamed all the time when they don't follow the advice. But unlike rape, no-one has forced a chocolate cake down their throat have they, so it really is there fault and the ONLY change that can be made comes from 'the victim'...

[loraward]

And the 'victims' of obesity or other public health problems are blamed all the time when they don't follow the advice. But unlike rape, no-one has forced a chocolate cake down their throat have they, so it really is there fault and the ONLY change that can be made comes from 'the victim'...

 

In some cases of rape, no one forces the victim to have sex, they are just incapable of making an informed choice, and that can just as easily apply to a cake, if someone is drunk they are likley incapable of making an informed decision about whether to eat the cake or not, so it must be the cake manufactures fault for making such tempting cake, or is it their fault for getting that drunk that they eat a cake they wouldn't have eaten whilst sober.

[Flanker7]

Listening to Toby this morning Re: Are you beach body ready.

It could be that this and this thread is all about advertising.

 

The tactics/adverts that are successful are the ones that engender fear, jealousy, envy, shame, etc, etc....

....and people are more/less susceptible to these tactics.

 

Taken to extremes:-

Some are confident in their own bodies and in their own lives and advertising has no effect on them

Some are walking basket cases and every little look, suggestion, comment, causes angst and self doupt.

 

Lets no beat about the bush. Females generally are less physiologically secure.

 

Toby is going large on this now...........all female callers so far....

Edited April 29, 2015 by Flanker7

[Olive]

And the 'victims' of obesity or other public health problems are blamed all the time when they don't follow the advice. But unlike rape, no-one has forced a chocolate cake down their throat have they, so it really is there fault and the ONLY change that can be made comes from 'the victim'...

 

I was more referring to Ronthenekred's point that we don't or shouldn't give out advice to adults per se, when in fact adults are being targeted by advice all the time, and there's good evidence to show that some of it works.

 

I agree with your point, especially if people were doling out pointless advice like "Don't get raped".

Edited April 29, 2015 by Olive

[Cyclone]

They add a bit more than that, but that's what it boils down to, tell the potential victims to avoid being raped by doing/not doing x.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2015 at 08:33 ----------

 

In some cases of rape, no one forces the victim to have sex, they are just incapable of making an informed choice, and that can just as easily apply to a cake, if someone is drunk they are likley incapable of making an informed decision about whether to eat the cake or not, so it must be the cake manufactures fault for making such tempting cake, or is it their fault for getting that drunk that they eat a cake they wouldn't have eaten whilst sober.

 

A lack of consent is being forced to have sex.

Nobody eats chocolate cake without consenting to it. Eating cake once doesn't make you obese of course, and even blind drunk, if you get the cake and eat it, you can't claim that you didn't want to eat it.

 

Do you not get bored of trying to split hairs in ridiculous ways in order to entirely miss the point?

Edited April 29, 2015 by Cyclone

[rollwithit]

In an ideal world we should all be able to dress how we want and wonder around on our own without coming into harm. But the world is not ideal. My employer warns me of the dangers of lone visiting and advises me of what precautions to take under their health and safety guidelines.

 

We all have a responsibility for our own safety, so why should it be any different outside of work?

 

Police and parents are only trying to advise these women not to make themselves a vulnerable target to such criminals.

 

We've all seen the reality cop shows where they find some 18 yo woman, dressed in next to nothing slumped out in the street with no friends insight. Not many men get raped, but lads have done the same and still could be open to a mugging or an assault.