Why is telling girls to be careful rape apologistic

[esme]

...Not educating people to take care of themselves is NOT going to magically rid the world of rapists and muggers...

Agreed.

 

It's going to take a lot of hard work, but at the moment very few are even thinking of trying and they tend to get shouted down.

[Cyclone]

If you had a child (or indeed any loved one, I know I say the same things to my other half and make sure he has a way of getting home safely and he's a big 6'2 37 year old guy!) who was going on a night out would you really tell them 'get as drunk as you please, don't bother keeping an eye on your drinks because it's not your fault if it gets spiked, and don't worry about arranging to get a proper taxi or lift home, just get in any old car with a random stranger'. No you would not and if you did you'd be being a massively irresponsible because we live in a world where bad stuff happens.

 

Not educating people to take care of themselves is NOT going to magically rid the world of rapists and muggers. That's like saying if we all stop bothering to lock our houses and just educate theives we'll get rid of burglaries. Yeah... right.

 

Anyway it's not even all about rape, if you're getting ridiculously drunk and walking home alone you're also at increased risk of having an accident, there've been cases where people have passed out and frozen to death or fallen in a canal and drowned. It's just common sense.

 

Obviously no one should EVER say anything like 'well you shouldn't have been in that alley, that's why you got raped', but that is entirely different to saying 'please take care and don't walk home alone'.

 

Telling girls not to frequent pubs, to not wear short skirts, not to look too attractive and not to flirt with anyone, on the other hand, is most definitely a way of preparing to blame them if they are assaulted.

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 15:56 ----------

 

That incorrect - the fact is simple that those that do it are at risk. It also means that those places are where the undesirables frequent,so its a warning.

Where has anyone blamed the victim on here?

 

Why tell someone about it unless you are expecting them to change their behaviour.

If you aren't telling them to avoid getting into that situation (the pub) then simply say nothing.

 

---------- Post added 23-04-2015 at 15:57 ----------

 

 

No....

 

You totally missed my point.

 

What was the point?

[esme]

I visited Morrisons today, a tannoy warning advised me to put my valuables safe.

It didn't tell all the thieves to leave the building.

Are they blaming me or warning me?

Are they notifying the criminals that they know they're operating and are trying to prevent the opportunities available to them.?

1. They're putting the onus on you to keep your valuables safe so by implication it's your fault if you don't & subsequently get robbed.
   
2. They are making a public announcement so any thieves know you've been warned and will, hopefully, leave the building.
   

They warned you rather than do something about the thieves, but that's enough to remove any liability so you can't sue the store if you get robbed.

I had my laptop rebuilt or reinstalled rather last month after it crashed - the pc guy advised against visiting dodgy sites.

Was he blaming me for the damage it could do to my laptop? Or warning me that bad people do bad things to good people for no reason other than they can ?

He's saying it's your fault if you visit a dodgy site & pick up some malware.

[truman]

1. They're putting the onus on you to keep your valuables safe so by implication it's your fault if you don't & subsequently get robbed.
   
2. They are making a public announcement so any thieves know you've been warned and will, hopefully, leave the building.
   

They warned you rather than do something about the thieves, but that's enough to remove any liability so you can't sue the store if you get robbed.He's saying it's your fault if you visit a dodgy site & pick up some malware.

 

Best bet then as far as I can see is not to inform/warn anyone about any possible danger..that way no-one can get upset..easy really..

[esme]

Best bet then as far as I can see is not to inform/warn anyone about any possible danger..that way no-one can get upset..easy really..

If they know there are thieves in the store they need to protect the store from any possible lawsuits just in case someone gets robbed and claims the store should have at done something.

 

A public announcement is a lot cheaper than finding the thieves and removes any possibility of suing the store.

 

And we seem to be drifting off the topic.

[Chelle-82]

What was the point?

 

My point was in regards to the two sets of lads fighting. The first group were the instigators, throwing punches and kicks etc. The second group retaliated, however they were tooled up!

 

The police came and arrested the lads from the second group (and rightly so!!) but they didn't so much as give a warning to the first set of lads that actually started the fighting.

 

That, is what I say is ridiculous.

[Olive]

If they know there are thieves in the store they need to protect the store from any possible lawsuits just in case someone gets robbed and claims the store should have at done something.

 

A public announcement is a lot cheaper than finding the thieves and removes any possibility of suing the store.

 

And we seem to be drifting off the topic.

 

Hi Esme, are you saying that people should never warn people of specific dangers? Isn't it possible that staff at the Morrison's want to protect their customers? It seems a bit mean to assume that all they care about is a lawsuit?

 

Would you ever take your own advice to put yourself at less of a risk in some situations? I ask this, because having read this thread, if it was possible to go back in time and give myself some advice (which would be not to get so blottoed on occasion to wonder quite how I made it home the next day), I think I would.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Olive

[sgtkate]

Often you read about police and other groups telling girls when they are out to stay in groups watch what they drink and generally be careful because of rapists.

 

Its the same as people telling me to keep my door locked or not leave valuables lying around. Its not saying that I am defending burglars or thieves its saying these scumbags are out there so be careful.

 

Yet whenever we give advice like the above to girls the feminists saying that we are apologising for rapists and we should stop rapists not advise girls to take care.

 

It doesn't make sense. Yes men shouldnt rape but while we are dealing with the scumbags we need to make the innocent are protected.

 

Quite simply, because all you are doing is pushing the crime on to someone else. If that one girl gets a taxi home rather than walking then it's quite like a girl that did walk home may get attacked instead. If all our energy and efforts were focussed on understanding rape, reasons behind it (its not always as simplistic as just sex) and about making the idea of rape sickening to all, including those who currently think it's a sign of power then perhaps we could all but end rapes. Asking people to change how they live their lives to avoid being raped isn't a solution.

 

The same logic applies to people being burgled etc. You might not get burgled but your neighbour might so all that's happened is push the crime along. If everyone got CCTV then the crime would likely escalate etc.

[woodmally]

It doesn't do anything about the people who, upon seeing someone who is apparently inebriated, will decide to sexually assault them instead of helping them or leaving them alone.

 

Those are the people we need to address.

 

No absolutly it doesnt nor does telling someone to lock doors and windows does anything about despicable people who break into peoples houses and steal. These awful people are out there and need dealing with but in the mean time we need to make sure we all protect ourselves from crime in the actions we take. Its sad we have to do this but necessary.

[esme]

HI Esme, are you saying that people should never warn people of specific dangers?

No, I'm saying concentrate on the perpetrators of crimes rather than the victims.

 

Too often it's the other way around

Isn't it possible that staff at the Morrison's want to protect their customers? It seems a bit mean to assume that all they care about is a lawsuit?

I'm sure that protecting their customers is among the reasons for stores making an announcement.

Would you ever take your own advice to put yourself at less of a risk in some situations? I ask this, because having read this thread, if it was possible to go back in time and give myself some advice (which would be not to get so blottoed on occasion to wonder quite how I made it home the next day), I think I would.

Sorry to hear that, glad you made it home though.

 

I drink, but I don't enjoy drinking to excess having overimbibed a few times & suffering the hangover that followed, I've never been so bad I didn't know how I got home.

 

On those occasions, in the places I used to frequent, pretty much everyone knew everyone else, I know it's no guarantee of safety but they looked out for each other.

 

I'm not saying no one was ever raped back then but I didn't heard of it if it happened in the group I was in.

 

If I read about a rape or sexual assault in the papers it was a big deal, these days it almost seems to have been trivialised and the attention shifted away from the perpetrator and focused on the victim.

 

No absolutly it doesnt nor does telling someone to lock doors and windows does anything about despicable people who break into peoples houses and steal. These awful people are out there and need dealing with but in the mean time we need to make sure we all protect ourselves from crime in the actions we take. Its sad we have to do this but necessary.

Back when my mum was alive, when was home she never, ever locked the back door, except when she went to bed.

 

The neighbours would knock or shout her name and simply open the door and walk in, none of them locked their doors either.

 

The one time she was burgled was she was out shopping and the house was locked up.

 

These awful people were about then too and nothing was done about them instead we were all advised to lock our doors and take precautions, have these awful people stopped because we do this ?

 

No they haven't, because we haven't addressed the problem, we've started an 'arms race' in locks and alarms instead and blame those who don't have them for being easy targets.

 

But again we're drifting away from the point.

Edited April 23, 2015 by esme