Tory welfare cuts

[I1L2T3]

What an idiotic comment, are you not capable of saying something sensible.

 

Or maybe you have evidence that middle class people despise housing associations, benefits and food banks.

 

I'm afraid it's true my friend. The evidence is splashed everywhere in the media and places like this forum that people have negative views towards those who seek/need help.

 

British people have some of the highest levels of personal debt in the world. And it's getting worse.

 

When you are one step away from the gutter then the gutter is the thing you fear most. People know it might be them next.

[salou4]

I'm afraid it's true my friend. The evidence is splashed everywhere in the media and places like this forum that people have negative views towards those who seek/need help.

 

British people have some of the highest levels of personal debt in the world. And it's getting worse.

 

When you are one step away from the gutter then the gutter is the thing you fear most. People know it might be them next.

 

I repeat, as you seem to have mis-read my post: where is your evidence that middle class people hate benefits, etc.

 

Just because you say something is true, it doesn't make it true, it just makes you a bad judge.

[-Boomer-]

I repeat, as you seem to have mis-read my post: where is your evidence that middle class people hate benefits, etc.

 

Just because you say something is true, it doesn't make it true, it just makes you a bad judge.

 

Just read the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph etc or watch Channel 5

[mossdog]

I'm afraid it's true my friend. The evidence is splashed everywhere in the media and places like this forum that people have negative views towards those who seek/need help.

 

British people have some of the highest levels of personal debt in the world. And it's getting worse.

 

When you are one step away from the gutter then the gutter is the thing you fear most. People know it might be them next.

The mass of British people no doubt have little respect for people that allow themselves to get into the highest level of personal debt in the world............some then allow themselves to say they have fallen into poverty,without ever understanding the true meaning of the word!

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2015 at 17:34 ----------

 

And talking of bank regulation, as posted elsewhere:

 

John Prescott and Ian Hislop both hit the nail bang on the head yesterday when they both pointed out that a big (if not the biggest mistake) that Labour made during their election campaign, was that they let both the Tories and Lib Dems tell the biggest lie constantly over and over again during the last five years, and in doing so they created the myth that Labour caused the world wide banking crash that led to one of the longest recessions ever seen in this country.

 

They did not. The Bank of England recognised this with the official indepth report on the financial sector crash of 2008 Which said "That no single party was to blame" The Tories created the myth through a lie, and Cameron using selective wording like "We inherited the worst financial crisis in our history " But he never outright says that Labour caused that financial crisis. And so their MPs and supporters ran with it, and repeated the lie and misleading quote as often as they could , so still to this day well over half the country still believes in their ignorance that Labour was solely responsible for the banking crash and global recession.

 

What made it even worse is that Miliband in steering clear of the subject did not highlight that far from mishandling the economy the previous labour government had the best growth record of any British government, when they delivered ten straight years of sustained growth, which had never been achieved before and it was only the 2008 global banking crisis that brought that run to an abrupt end.

 

Let me give you a basic simple with no frills break down of the 2008 banking crash, and point out where Labour did get it wrong.

 

The banking crash was basically caused by banks all over the world including ours, lending out huge sums of money over a long period of time to people and businesses that were clearly a business loan or mortgage risk and so many of these people and businesses were unable to pay these loans causing massive losses to the banks.

 

In the first instance the Bankers were to blame for issuing these loans. They did so because basically the more money they lent out the bigger personal individual bonuses they received, so over a period of time they were literally throwing money at people and businesses all over the world in pursuit of personal greed from these huge bonuses.

 

Where Labour got it wrong is they failed to spot this was happening. They did have a department to monitor any banking irregularities (The top civil servant who's job it was to spot these banking irregularities was actually knighted in 2013 after David Cameron personally nominated him for a knighthood. How strange is that ?) So Labour can be blamed for not spotting the impending financial melt down of the banks . Well yes and no, one of the main reasons they did not pick up on it was because the banks were hiding these massive losses in what many people feel now was a criminal deception, but nobody has ever been brought to book for these deceptive actions.

 

Now while the Tories are happy to shout from the rooftops that Labour were asleep on the job their shadow treasury had also completely missed it, as had every other country including the largest economy in the world. Not one country spotted the global banking crash until the banks had ran out of money. So it is quite clear that you can not just pin this on labour. It was not like they were warned and choose to ignore it and the Tories were completely oblivious to it as well, even though their party had tighter ties to the British banks than labour.

 

The next thing that the Tories shout about is that it was Labour's fault for the deregulation of the banks ( basically letting them do as they please ). Again this is not strictly true as it Was Margaret Thatcher who started the deregulation of the banks in the 80s. This was then to become the era of the yuppies as young city bankers started their spree for large bonuses and spent those bonuses on living it large and letting everyone else know that they were minted. At the time Labour opposed the deregulation for the precise reason that they feared the yuppie bankers would run riot if left to their own devices.

 

Where labour has to take the blame is that when they eventually came to power they failed to start regulating the banks again. But then why would they? The city of London was booming and other banks now had London as their HQ and everyone was making huge amounts of money and the economy was on a historic run of unblemished growth that would go on for ten straight years, but also if the Labour government had decided to tighten up the banking regulations the Tories would have gone mental in opposition. This is where they show their real hypocritical colours because they have always fought for the deregulation of the banks because that enabled individual bankers to make a lot of money and a lot of those bankers are still to this day Tory donors.

 

If it had not been Labour who had the bad luck of being in government at the time of the 2008 crash and it had been a Tory government in power at the time, it would have not made a blind bit of difference because they like governments all over the world would not have had a clue about the impending financial crises and if the Tories had been in power they would have completely deregulated the banks from any outside interference. They had throughout the nineties called for complete deregulation and indeed to this day they have only loosely regulated them. Other banks throughout the world now have much tighter regulations than British banks.

 

As for the recession that was caused after the crash. Well even if we had spotted the banking irregularities and escaped the crash we still would have gone into recession because the rest of the world was in recession and the worlds’ stock markets reflected this and no one was spending any money or doing much trade. We would have suffered as a direct result because of other countries recessions and lack of spending power.

 

The final thing that the Tories shout about is Labour's spending after the crash to stimulate the economy. This is where they are at their most hypocritical best because in both 2008 and 2009 George Osborne stood up in parliament and demanded that Gordon Brown increase what he had spent, pouring money in the economy to kick start it after the crises. In fact the Tories backed every single last penny that Labour spent in those two years. Not one single time did the Tory party call for a halt on the spending stimulus and as I have said they wanted to increase it to stimulate the economy.

 

Was Gordon Brown right to bale out the banks? Of course he was and the Tories agree. If we had not bailed out the banks then small businesses all over the country would have folded as their loans would have been called up and millions of pensions would have simply vanished and nobody would be getting a mortgage from these banks it would have been a calamity for the country. The Tory supporters love to shout about Gordon Brown selling the gold on the cheap. He didn't, he sold it for its market value at the time. The market dropped slightly when it knew about the up coming sale.

 

Ignorant Tory supporters love to bleat on about "our gold" well let me tell you that it is not their gold. They wont ever see it or touch it because we have absolutely no use for it; we do not even trade in it. It simply sits on pallets in an underground bunker gathering dust and costing a small fortune to house and that is all it will ever do and we still have loads of the stuff left just sitting there doing nothing. In fact previous government’s have also considered selling a huge chunk of it off from Ted Heath’s government to Thatcher’s. The Tory supporters make out that it is like the crown jewels. It is not, it is just bars of gold that nobody will ever see or touch in fact a lot of people did not know it even existed until Brown sold a chunk. By the way that sale helped save the pensions of millions of people being eaten up by the crash, and we still have every single penny from that sale as some Tory supporters seem to think he just squandered it.

 

And finally the recovery after the 2008 crash. Once again the Tories are on very shaky ground because by 2010 we were in recovery the economy was growing once more on three consecutive quarters and it looked like the worst had passed, as we were even beating the US in our recovery. It was only after the Tories came in to power in 2010 and took over the economy that the real trouble started, because George Osborne instantly plunged us into a crippling austerity era that he then instantly lost all the growth he had inherited and plunged us back into a double dip recession and what looked like a fairly steady recovery turned into the longest recovery in British History. To this day George Osborne has still not recovered the amount of growth that he inherited from his predecessor. During the campaign the Tories made out that they were the economic saviours of the country. They are not. It is almost laughable because they have hardly implemented half the cuts they had planned, they have borrowed three times the amount than Labour and the very real fear is that when they start cutting to the bone again and taking out all the nice things from your communities and closing all your public services, it will have the exact same effect as it did in 2010 and plunge what is a very shaky drawn-out recovery, straight back into a dangerous recession zone.

 

Ed Miliband was strongly advised to tackle the economic crash lie as early as 2011 before it was so embedded in the nation that it became folklore. He completely ignored the advice, in fact a Labour insider said he went completely the other way and told his parties members to not get embroiled into the argument of the banking crash on TV and radio debates and to steer away from the subject as soon as possible and to instead concentrate on talking about the future rather than the past. As Ian Hislop pointed out, that was to be a fatal decision because when Cameron and co realised that non of the above points were being made in response, they managed to cement the lie into a majority of the countries minds where it has stayed, ever since, and when Miliband did eventually tackle the subject and pointed out the hypocrisy of the then shadow Tory party. In the final couple of days of his campaign t was way to late I think that until Labour tackle this subject aggressively and stop trying to ignore it, as they did on Miliband’s instructions, it will constantly be used against them at every general election to come. There is a whisper that a pamphlet is going to be drawn up that will tell the bare truth and all the facts of the 2008 crash.

 

So there you have it my friends there is not one single lie in the above post, it is all a researchable fact. No doubt the Tory brigade will try and muddy the waters and post some fudged up figures or comments from the Tory newspapers who also beat the same drum on this myth. But I have told you, as I always do the absolute truth, and I have not bedazzled anything in the post, I would suggest that who ever becomes the leader of the Labour party does the same. So in short, it would have made absolutely no difference whoever was the government in 2008. it was not only labour that missed the warning signs, the whole world missed them to, mainly because the banks were criminally hiding their enormous losses. Labour did the correct thing by over spending to stimulate the economy. The Tories know this because they backed every single penny spent. When Labour were defeated in 2010 they left the economy in to a sustainable recovery with growth in their last three quarters. It was solely the actions of George Osborne’s instant austerity that plunged us back into a recession three months later from which we have still not recovered from.

...........well you can post whatever you read,but just carry on believing in a party that Britain does not want to believe in, and has deleted at the polls! Edited May 10, 2015 by mossdog

[I1L2T3]

I repeat, as you seem to have mis-read my post: where is your evidence that middle class people hate benefits, etc.

 

Just because you say something is true, it doesn't make it true, it just makes you a bad judge.

 

The evidence is everywhere in the media. Just look at Twitter or Facebook or the Mail Online after Benefits Street has been on tv.

 

Simple. Just look.

[mossdog]

A lot of the problems in banking happened in the shadow banking sector, which the coalition did nothing to regulate either. All the potential instability in the system still exists.

So because the public wanted to go to the casino of the housing market and fund their new home from a bank loan and move into a new home for £99 deposit.........errr, if it sounds too good to be true .........you know the rest,

Where was personal responsibility in all this..........or was it all the banks fault?...........no borrowers = no banks!

[salou4]

Just read the Daily Mail, The Sun, The Telegraph etc or watch Channel 5

If that's the best you've got, no wonder Labour lost the election.

Its all the fault of Murdoch or the right wing press.

Well you might be such an idiot that you believe everything you read in the paper, (if its the Guardian presumably) but most of us can think for ourselves thank you very much.

[tinfoilhat]

If that's the best you've got, no wonder Labour lost the election.

Its all the fault of Murdoch or the right wing press.

Well you might be such an idiot that you believe everything you read in the paper, (if its the Guardian presumably) but most of us can think for ourselves thank you very much.

 

I do like person of interest though. I'm warming to NCIS: New Orleans. Should I have voted UKIP?

[salou4]

The evidence is everywhere in the media. Just look at Twitter or Facebook or the Mail Online after Benefits Street has been on tv.

 

Simple. Just look.

 

Or I could look on here. What a brilliant argument you have put forward for voting Labour. Remind me next time to check your posts out before I vote.R

[Anna B]

The evidence is everywhere in the media. Just look at Twitter or Facebook or the Mail Online after Benefits Street has been on tv.

 

Simple. Just look.

 

This is a repeat of what happened immediately after the crash, when nearly every politician, including Gordon Brown, and spokespersons said that 'no one could have seen the crash coming' when in fact the internet had been alive with it for over a year.

 

It had been broadcast loud and clear by respected people like Ron Paul and Norm Chomsky and other financial experts. One important academic actually left his job and went round the country giving lectures to try and educate ordinary people into what was happening.

 

But the lie persisted and became 'the truth.' So too did the lie that 'this was the mess that Labour left us in' and it stuck in the minds of people who didn't know any better.

 

This was backed up by Murdoch's press. The people who are sytematically villified and derided in the popular (Murdoch) press are often the truth tellers, and the politicians are frightened to death that people might listen to them, believe them, and their game will be up.

 

The Daily Mail's treatment of David Milliband in this last election has been disgraceful, a daily onslaught of the most vile libel and propoganda. It has well overstepped the remit of a popular newspaper and there should be (yet another) public enquiry.

 

This is not sour grapes. I didn't even vote for Milliband. But it really was disgusting.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Anna B