Proportional Representation

[alchemist]

Call me old fashioned but an MP is elected by a particular area/constituency and sits in parliament to represent said area/constituency, not to represent likeminded but widely spread people; what/where would a PR elected MP's constituency be?

 

Almost right an MP is elected in a constituency but then does what the party whips want them to do whether or not its what the voters who voted them in wanted so therefore at that point only represent what the party leader wants

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2015 at 14:39 ----------

 

It could be worse, my party has been destroyed. From my point of view Liberalism died last night in the election. Even if they do rebuild the party, it will more of a social democratic party than a liberal party.

 

But under a proper and more democratic voting system they would have still survived in such numbers to have been still a bit of a force as opposed to a farce

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2015 at 14:43 ----------

 

I wonder what you've both been talking about for the last page and a half

 

sorry, i just skipped through it, should i have been paying attention?

[tinfoilhat]

No it wasn't, Proportional Representation hasn't been offered to the British people.

 

What was offered was AV Alternative Vote, a different and flawed system which allowed politicians to argue against it.

 

They would have had massive problems trying to argue against PR as it is without doubt the fairest system devised.

 

Politicians are not interested in fairness they are interested in getting elected and as they did so under FPTP they want to keep it.

 

Exactly, once you've won in FPTP you aren't going to look at ways to lose next time under PR. Blair talked about PR in 97 if memory serves, but it won't be talked about again now for this and probably at least the next two parliments.

[the_bloke]

Exactly, once you've won in FPTP you aren't going to look at ways to lose next time under PR. Blair talked about PR in 97 if memory serves, but it won't be talked about again now for this and probably at least the next two parliments.

 

I don't remember people rioting about the voting system in 2005 either.

[alchemist]

PR was rejected by the people in a referendum that was put to them a few years ago.........UKIP are 'the peoples party'.........allegedly.

 

What was offered was NOT PR

[mjw47]

Exactly, once you've won in FPTP you aren't going to look at ways to lose next time under PR. Blair talked about PR in 97 if memory serves, but it won't be talked about again now for this and probably at least the next two parliments.

 

We have a catch 22 situation, the people who can provide us with the opportunity to adopt the system don't want to do so for selfish personal reasons.

 

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDgQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electoral-reform.org.uk%2Fsingle-transferable-vote&ei=UF9PVdS6DenX7QbJmYHQDg&usg=AFQjCNHsNKzOmsCCgQp9bK9QR1Uszc3tPg&bvm=bv.92885102,d.ZGU

 

This is a summary of pro's and con's of PR, there are 12 pro's and only 5 con's, one of which, the so called 'donkey vote' is ludicrous.

 

The pro I like the best is the one politicians hate the most, 'there is no such thing as a safe seat under PR'.

 

Imagine if the politicians had to court the general public and not just set out to bribe a few marginals?

 

Even Sheffield might come away with something!

[tinfoilhat]

Here's a thought, as head of state can the queen not say "right chaps, next election it's PR (of whatever sort) - deal with it"

[ECCOnoob]

Here's a thought, as head of state can the queen not say "right chaps, next election it's PR (of whatever sort) - deal with it"

 

Hardly very democratic. Should it not be for us to decide if we want it or not?

 

I doubt that the queen would be coming out and saying "Citizens, Im reforming the entire electoral system as of next term and you have no say in the matter. ."

 

Its all nonsense anyway. Sour grapes from a load of leftie rent a mob with a handful of kippers thrown in. None of this fuss was around about the so called unfair FPTP system when Labour got in during the 1997-2010 periods. Nor during the tory rules of 1979-1997. There was none of this fuss when the coalition government was formed in 2010.

 

Its just a load of losers protesting for the sake of protesting stirred up from some of the worst media bias (from both sides!) I have ever seen. The Mirror should be ashamed of themselves for their almost Labour PR rag stance. Equally the Express with its UKIP donation and PR machines for the purples and finally the Mail and Telegraph with its city boy support.

 

All this together with the accidental Xenophobia created by the pro/anti SNP stances have created what I feel has been one of the worst campaigns ever. Its stirred up the moron brigades and, as is traditional this time of year, has given a perfect excuse for an annual riot.

 

Quite frankly, its nothing to do with the Party in Power, nor the so called austerity, nor the unfair election process. It was an inevitable mad moment.

Edited May 10, 2015 by ECCOnoob

[tinfoilhat]

Hardly very democratic. Should it not be for us to decide if we want it or not?

 

I doubt that the queen would be coming out and saying "Citizens, Im reforming the entire electoral system as of next term and you have no say in the matter. ."

 

Its all nonsense anyway. Sour grapes from a load of leftie rent a mob with a handful of kippers thrown in. None of this fuss was around about the so called unfair FPTP system when Labour got in during the 1997-2010 periods. Nor during the tory rules of 1979-1997. There was none of this fuss when the coalition government was formed in 2010.

 

Its just a load of losers protesting for the sake of protesting stirred up from some of the worst media bias (from both sides!) I have ever seen. The Mirror should be ashamed of themselves for their almost Labour PR rag stance. Equally the Express with its UKIP donation and PR machines for the purples and finally the Mail and Telegraph with its city boy support.

 

All this together with the accidental Xenophobia created by the pro/anti SNP stances have created what I feel has been one of the worst campaigns ever. Its stirred up the moron brigades and, as is traditional this time of year, has given a perfect excuse for an annual riot.

 

Quite frankly, its nothing to do with the Party in Power, nor the so called austerity, nor the unfair election process. It was an inevitable mad moment.

 

I've been quite keen on PR since I studied it, albeit briefly, at school. But under the current format I can't see it changing anyway. You can argue the current system isn't very democratic - the Tories, for good or bad have carte Blanche (barring any internal divisions) to push through what they like with about a third of the vote.

 

That said, after 5 years of nothing happening in Scotland (sturgeon bless her is getting nowt) a EU referendum and shift to the centre right by labour it will be for all intents and purposes a two horse race next time. The ukips, snps and lib dems are effectivly dead now.

[alchemist]

Hardly very democratic. Should it not be for us to decide if we want it or not?

 

I doubt that the queen would be coming out and saying "Citizens, Im reforming the entire electoral system as of next term and you have no say in the matter. ."

 

Its all nonsense anyway. Sour grapes from a load of leftie rent a mob with a handful of kippers thrown in. None of this fuss was around about the so called unfair FPTP system when Labour got in during the 1997-2010 periods. Nor during the tory rules of 1979-1997. There was none of this fuss when the coalition government was formed in 2010.

 

Its just a load of losers protesting for the sake of protesting stirred up from some of the worst media bias (from both sides!) I have ever seen. The Mirror should be ashamed of themselves for their almost Labour PR rag stance. Equally the Express with its UKIP donation and PR machines for the purples and finally the Mail and Telegraph with its city boy support.

 

All this together with the accidental Xenophobia created by the pro/anti SNP stances have created what I feel has been one of the worst campaigns ever. Its stirred up the moron brigades and, as is traditional this time of year, has given a perfect excuse for an annual riot.

 

Quite frankly, its nothing to do with the Party in Power, nor the so called austerity, nor the unfair election process. It was an inevitable mad moment.

 

Thank you for your well thought out and informative input

[mjw47]

Hardly very democratic. Should it not be for us to decide if we want it or not?

 

I doubt that the queen would be coming out and saying "Citizens, Im reforming the entire electoral system as of next term and you have no say in the matter. ."

 

Its all nonsense anyway. Sour grapes from a load of leftie rent a mob with a handful of kippers thrown in. None of this fuss was around about the so called unfair FPTP system when Labour got in during the 1997-2010 periods. Nor during the tory rules of 1979-1997. There was none of this fuss when the coalition government was formed in 2010.

 

Its just a load of losers protesting for the sake of protesting stirred up from some of the worst media bias (from both sides!) I have ever seen. The Mirror should be ashamed of themselves for their almost Labour PR rag stance. Equally the Express with its UKIP donation and PR machines for the purples and finally the Mail and Telegraph with its city boy support.

 

All this together with the accidental Xenophobia created by the pro/anti SNP stances have created what I feel has been one of the worst campaigns ever. Its stirred up the moron brigades and, as is traditional this time of year, has given a perfect excuse for an annual riot.

 

Quite frankly, its nothing to do with the Party in Power, nor the so called austerity, nor the unfair election process. It was an inevitable mad moment.

 

I had PR + STV explained to me by an Irish cousin fifty years ago and have been a advocate ever since.

 

It has been used in the Irish Republic since independence in 1922.

 

Twenty one out of twenty eight European countries use it, it is used in Northern Ireland where fairness has to be seen to be done following so many years of blatant gerrymandering.

 

The European Union use it.

 

As for your 'lefties' remark Tony Blair took office in 2005 with only 35.2% of the vote.

 

There are two questions to ask, firstly, do you want to live in a democracy?

 

Secondly do you want the fairest most democratic voting system available in order to achieve true democracy?

 

If the answer to both is yes then the only way to achieve that is with PR+STV.

 

If the answer to either is no then please explain why.

 

The current system has provided the SNP with 56 seats from 1.5 million votes and Ukip with 1 seat from 4 million votes.

 

I have no time whatsoever for Ukip but I believe in democracy.

 

The current system is ridiculous, and even a spokesman for the SNP has had the good grace to say so.