truman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Example...everybody in the country get's something, say £20 a week. When you are made unemployed you get £20 per week + another £60 per week. JUST for contributing you get something out the public pot..... Wow that's about 32 billion a year just for the £20 a week and if only those of working age get this..possibly a bit more..where will it come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermaus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I agree, but it won't stop me feeling it from time to time. Benefits are paid to people like my cousin and my friends neighbour, this will be happening all over the UK, I cant do anything about it. The personal part which upsets me and does get me frustrated is seeing my old gran shattered at the end of each week and worrying about which bill she has to pay next and if she's got enough money to see her through until pay day. She 84 for gods sake! My brother, who I adore and admire went until he was in his 30's before he was told he had been entitled to travel expenses. He could have claimed this as soon as he left school, it wouldn't have been much but it would have helped him out a little. [ Work for the low paid has to be more beneficial. It has to be more beneficial to go to work, financially then to sit on your backside, get your house paid for and food paid for. That's why I would argue for a living wage. ---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 12:46 ---------- Wow that's about 32 billion a year just for the £20 a week and if only those of working age get this..possibly a bit more..where will it come from? 38 million (working age population) x £20 = £760 million. It would come from everybodies tax payments.... ---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 12:47 ---------- the underlying ethos is 'everybody gets something'....then if you are made to go on welfare you get the top-up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 It's not my job to do that. So would you report a car theft, or an assault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermaus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 So would you report a car theft, or an assault? My own car? yes. Someone elses car? no. assault? yes. If I had to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 [/color] 38 million (working age population) x £20 = £760 million. .. Now multiply that by 52.....or are we just getting £20 a year...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermaus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I have only just seen the opening entry to this thread and I like the idea of people who put more into the system being able to get more out of the system when they need it. For this to work effectively, I guess everyone would need an 'account' opened up by the Government when they're born. I suppose the time you spend in hospital for being born should not be an amount put onto your personal account - but your parents. However, your schooling should be. I bet that costs a lot. It must be £1,000s per year and there's many years. Any healthcare you take advantage of must also be accounted for. So, when you're 16, I bet you'd be running a deficit with the Government of many thousands of Pounds... now, when you start paying taxes and NI those amounts (both or just one?) can be used as credits to your notional account. It will probably take you many years of working to get to a zero balance. If you have a <£0 balance, it doesn't stop you receiving any benefits, you would just receive them at the lowest amount. If you have a >£0 balance, then you can start to get better benefits - for example, if you go into hospital (under the NHS) maybe you could elect to have a separate room with a nice TV and wifi... If you are made unemployed and you have a notional surplus, maybe you can elect to take the basic unemployment benefit, or top it up a little bit to make the time you spend unemployed that bit easier to handle. Obviously you can still elect to use private healthcare, schooling and what-have-you as you can today. They still exist. I like the concept. You never get to separately add to or withdraw from this notional account. It just maintains a running total for you - are you providing more to society than you are taking from it? Last year George Osborne sent me a letter with a nice pie chart showing me how much tax and NI I'd paid in the previous year. I found it to be a scary figure. I thought at that time that I must now be giving more back than I have taken out, overall... but then I did recall that I went to university for free (I even got a grant, and a loan) and I've been to hospital a few times (that can't be cheap) and the GP a lot... and I'm only 40 - so maybe I would still be running at a deficit??? Who knows how much it costs to 'keep a person'? I mean, I've taken for the most part of my earlier life, I'm paying back (a lot) now, but it'll only be 30 years before I'm taking back out again... Effectively, this is shrinking the public pot. Public services would suffer and we wouldnt have a welfare system at all. Just a load of ghettos with crime and poor people and then a bunch of fairly comfortable to very rich people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
convert Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Now multiply that by 52.....or are we just getting £20 a year...? That's the problem with the Ed Balls school of mathematics that the Socialists attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Example...everybody in the country get's something, say £20 a week. Doesn't a tax code of 1000L (£10,000 before tax) work out at approx £200 a month that ISN'T taxed at 20%? And 20% of £200 would be £40. So anyone who's working full time on minimum wage with a standard tax code can be considered to be given £40 a week... And this makes much more sense than taking it in tax and then giving it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubermaus Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Now multiply that by 52.....or are we just getting £20 a year...? Yes thats right...the money would come from the £140 billion raised from big business tax avoidance. ---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 12:56 ---------- Doesn't a tax code of 1000L (£10,000 before tax) work out at approx £200 a month that ISN'T taxed at 20%? And 20% of £200 would be £40. So anyone who's working full time on minimum wage with a standard tax code can be considered to be given £40 a week... And this makes much more sense than taking it in tax and then giving it back. the point is everybody gets a payment. Its tangible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 38 million (working age population) x £20 = £760 million. A week. £760 million a week! The unified benefits system is supposed to ensure that working always makes someone better off, no marginal rate of effective tax of >100% (or even = 100%). ---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 12:56 ---------- Yes thats right...the money would come from the £140 billion raised from big business tax avoidance. ---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 12:56 ---------- the point is everybody gets a payment. Its tangible. They can cover the cost by halving the tax code for everyone then. And then taking off another 25% to cover the administration costs. Everyone will be £10 a week worse off, but they'll get something tangible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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