"I've paid into the system!"

[ubermaus]

Please explain who this

 

 

 

Is a personal attack on?

 

Maybe you should re-read the forum rules? anyway stick to the topic.

[Hippogriff]

There is some sense in what you say, although you'll still use NHS for emergencies and you'll see your GP first. But yes, you'll reduce the burden in other ways. So maybe this one should specifically be tax exempt to encourage it's use.

 

It's what I've always thought made sense. I class it as being different to, say, a company car.

[truman]

My view was always that if you had, as an example, private medical insurance what you are actually doing is relaxing the burden on the state system (not sure how much by, as you still need to go to the GP to get a referral). So you should be rewarded for that... not taxed more.

 

 

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...Don't the "private" consultants also work for the NHS? Aren't you using their time when they could be treating someone higher up the queue than yourself?

[Hippogriff]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...Don't the "private" consultants also work for the NHS? Aren't you using their time when they could be treating someone higher up the queue than yourself?

 

That's indeed the case (for those I've seen), yes, but I'm (well, the insurance company) are paying for their time, as opposed to it coming out of the pot from Government. I'd say (just from my understanding) that a lot of Consultants do their private work outside their normal NHS hours (I don't know if this means they reduce those hours - as they probably get paid more by the insurance company) but at least then the Government isn't paying them for those hours - so it's of some benefit still.

[L00b]

Just playing Devil's Advocate here...Don't the "private" consultants also work for the NHS?

Nope. At least not the couple of private consultants I know, as validated by the NHS-employed consultant I also know (who is forever uhm-ing and ah-ing about setting up private).

 

They may well sub-contract for the NHS, but in that case the NHS (-sponsored patient) is just another client in the (smaller) queue, paying the same rate (maybe minus a volume discount).

 

That will be referred by some as 'privatisation', but of course it's nothing of the sort, just reasonably intelligent husbanding of resources: in many cases, typically rare/complex/high-end procedures, it would simply be far too expensive for the NHS to hire the consultant/his team and equipment on a full-time basis, it's much more cost-effective to use that consultant ad hoc and let his private clinic stomach the investment, overheads, etc. Orthopods (as they are known) are comparatively cheap and orthopaedic procedures represent the brunt of NHS surgical work, so better to keep those on the books and in-NHS-house.

 

That's an elementary problem with the NHS, Legal Aid (RIP) and similar fully publicly-funded professional services: the users never understand and appreciate the actual cost and value of the service they're obtaining, and after a while the service providers themselves lose track of them. Giving it away free devalues it, same problem for all types of services. So, of course, once some people (assessors, accountants...Ministerial Cabinet) start looking at the ledgers again and realise that "we must start talking about numbers", culture shock (aka "bill shock" amongst professionals ).

Edited May 12, 2015 by L00b

[apelike]

There is simply no moral justification for knowing about a crime like that and not reporting it.

 

Yes there is.

 

After reporting a crime (assault) and then being threatened and then attacked for it, it is something I would now not do. The Police did little to help and were just looking for a conviction.

 

The court case had to be dropped as I withdrew charges and then did not go to the identification of the suspect because the suspects knew where I lived and their friends had intimidated me.

 

Have you ever been in that situation?

[ubermaus]

Yes there is.

 

After reporting a crime (assault) and then being threatened and then attacked for it, it is something I would now not do. The Police did little to help and were just looking for a conviction.

 

The court case had to be dropped as I withdrew charges and then did not go to the identification of the suspect because the suspects knew where I lived and their friends had intimidated me.

 

Have you ever been in that situation?

 

I believe you. normal people know there is never a black and white answer to reporting a crime, and its not immoral to decide not to report a crime. For instance 'its nothing to do with us' or 'im scared of intimidation'. All valid reasons.

We all trust the police to different degrees to actually protect us should we report a crime too.

It just appears to be cyclone who would report every crime, out of civic duty. Maybe someone could lend him a cape and a pair of tights?

Edited May 12, 2015 by ubermaus
.....

[L00b]

I believe you. normal people know there is never a black and white answer to reporting a crime, and its not immoral to decide not to report a crime. For instance 'its nothing to do with us' or 'im scared of intimidation'. All valid reasons.

We all trust the police to different degrees to actually protect us should we report a crime too.

It just appears to be cyclone who would report every crime, out of civic duty. Maybe someone could lend him a cape and a pair of tights?

I think it's useful to recap the context of where this started:

So would you report a car theft, or an assault?

My own car? yes.

Someone elses car? no.

 

assault? yes. If I had to.

Not that I particularly care for Cyclone (we've had and surely again will have our spats on here), but you're being a fair disingenuous here.

 

All Cyclone and other readers, myself included, had to go by was the above post. Not exactly heavy on context or nuance, such as "there is never a black and white answer to reporting a crime". How about a little bit more grey next time, eh?

[Cyclone]

Maybe you should re-read the forum rules? anyway stick to the topic.

 

Perhaps you can either explain how it's a personal attack and on whom, or withdraw the accusation.

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 14:58 ----------

 

It's what I've always thought made sense. I class it as being different to, say, a company car.

 

Agreed, can't see any reason private healthcare couldn't get at least a partial tax break to represent the off loading of the NHS.

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 15:03 ----------

 

Yes there is.

 

After reporting a crime (assault) and then being threatened and then attacked for it, it is something I would now not do. The Police did little to help and were just looking for a conviction.

 

The court case had to be dropped as I withdrew charges and then did not go to the identification of the suspect because the suspects knew where I lived and their friends had intimidated me.

 

Have you ever been in that situation?

 

I haven't, but I would report an assault if I saw one happening right now.

 

I still think that most people would.

 

---------- Post added 12-05-2015 at 15:05 ----------

 

I believe you. normal people know there is never a black and white answer to reporting a crime, and its not immoral to decide not to report a crime. For instance 'its nothing to do with us' or 'im scared of intimidation'. All valid reasons.

We all trust the police to different degrees to actually protect us should we report a crime too.

It just appears to be cyclone who would report every crime, out of civic duty. Maybe someone could lend him a cape and a pair of tights?

 

It's nothing to do with us is an immoral justification IMO for not reporting a crime. It IS to do with you as you belong to this society.

 

Because only super heroes would call the police to report a car being stolen

[ubermaus]

I think it's useful to recap the context of where this started:

Not that I particularly care for Cyclone (we've had and surely again will have our spats on here), but you're being a fair disingenuous here.

 

All Cyclone and other readers, myself included, had to go by was the above post. Not exactly heavy on context or nuance, such as "there is never a black and white answer to reporting a crime". How about a little bit more grey next time, eh?

 

To be fair L00b, I justified my answer. 'if I saw a broken car window' which is how I interpreted the question. However, to be honest I wouldnt necessarily report a random car being broken into either - it depends on the context.