"I've paid into the system!"

[-Boomer-]

Certainly the case with pensions, if you dont have enough years of contributions you will get a reduced pension. I don't see that as being unreasonable.

 

I think you might change your mind if through no fault of your own your own pension was reduced

[Obelix]

Which of course hsant yet happened.

[max]

Would this paying of benefits to those most in need apply to the private sector too? Those large multinationals where shareholders receive dividends but the employees have to claim in work benefits as they don't earn enough? What about those landlords whose tenants claim housing benefits because otherwise they would not be able to afford to rent?

 

Will this system force the multinationals and landlords to pay more in tax to alleviate the burden on the state caused by them?

[Chelle-82]

Picked this up in another thread and thought it was worthy making a new thread about:

 

"I paid into the system, so I should get something back".

 

I've noticed it ever since I moved here, people really do feel entitled to public money, whether it is the NHS, benefits or pensions, but if that is the case, shouldn't people who paid more into the system be getting more out of it?

 

As someone who has had to pay for their further education, earned a wage since being 16yrs old, paying the higher tax rate, owns my own home and has NEVER claimed a single benefit I do get rather frustrated that my taxes are being used however the government deems fit.

 

All that said, I would rather pay my taxes and contribute to the 'pot' along with millions of other tax payers in my position and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to claim benefits. I may sometimes complain but I also consider myself fortunate, and if my only concern in life is about the amount of tax I have to pay then I would take that over being in a position where I can't work and contribute and have to struggle to get by with the benefits I'd be handed out.

[Mister M]

No. Financial Advisers do that part.

 

 

If the government has put that money as allocated for welfare, and people are entitled to make a claim, then I see no problem in informing them of that. A person being happy and ignorant of what they can get isn't a reason for them to be misinformed.

 

If you think it is unfair then change the rules for entitlement, which is what welfare reform has been doing. I'll support that.

 

I'll give you a personal example, outside of my professional experience. I was talking to a friend of my wife recently and her grandmother is 90 years old. She is ill and said friend-of-my-wife is having a hard time keeping everything propped up. I know there are benefits in place that could give her Gran a little extra money to pay for a cleaner, or a gardener, or help family with petrol costs for driving around the city with shopping.

I don't feel any shame in informing someone of what is available.

 

Yes a good point. And if the Government felt that informing people of their entitlements was a bad idea, they may think twice about funding Citizens Advice Bureaux and the like.

I have read that £16 billion per year of benefits and credits goes unclaimed each year, and I wonder how much stigma and shame plays a part in that?

There are so many television programmes about scroungers and people taking what they're not entitled to, yet the representation of people who struggle without what, as a citizen the Government thinks they should get, is non existent.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2015 at 16:55 ----------

 

As someone who has had to pay for their further education, earned a wage since being 16yrs old, paying the higher tax rate, owns my own home and has NEVER claimed a single benefit I do get rather frustrated that my taxes are being used however the government deems fit.

 

All that said, I would rather pay my taxes and contribute to the 'pot' along with millions of other tax payers in my position and thank my lucky stars that I don't have to claim benefits. I may sometimes complain but I also consider myself fortunate, and if my only concern in life is about the amount of tax I have to pay then I would take that over being in a position where I can't work and contribute and have to struggle to get by with the benefits I'd be handed out.

 

Very well put.

[salou4]

I have read that £16 billion per year of benefits and credits goes unclaimed each year, and I wonder how much stigma and shame plays a part in that?

 

I would imagine that the complexity of our benefits system plays a bigger part. A much simplified system would benefit everyone, including the Govt as it would be cheaper to run.

 

I don't think that is contentious though, its deciding who is "deserving" and who is not, as we all have different ideas about that.

[Mister M]

Well, this took off a bit whilst I was out

 

In my view the only entitlement a person has is that to themselves and their loved ones. A system whereby one can be entitled to whatever the state is willing to provide has to be a bad system: Speak to a Greek person.

 

And again I pose the question, if paying into the system entitles you to anything, should those that pay most into the system be entitled to more? It's an interesting political philosophy debate I suppose with those adhering to socialist principles feeling that entitlement and reliance on state should be encouraged and those with liberalist principles the opposite.

 

My own belief is that a system based on entitlements, that we still have now, is much better than one based on charity. Mainly because being in receipt of charity can feel humiliating and probably won't reach the people it needs to. That's why organised systems of support, like the welfare state, were set up in the first place.

I also think that entitlement, as a mind set, rather than as a citizen's right, isn't the sole preserve of benefit recipients.

[Cyclone]

Would this paying of benefits to those most in need apply to the private sector too? Those large multinationals where shareholders receive dividends but the employees have to claim in work benefits as they don't earn enough? What about those landlords whose tenants claim housing benefits because otherwise they would not be able to afford to rent?

 

Will this system force the multinationals and landlords to pay more in tax to alleviate the burden on the state caused by them?

 

The landlords haven't somehow reduced the income of the tenants who can't afford rent.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2015 at 17:09 ----------

 

As someone who has had to pay for their further education, earned a wage since being 16yrs old, paying the higher tax rate, owns my own home and has NEVER claimed a single benefit I do get rather frustrated that my taxes are being used however the government deems fit.

You think they should ask you personally?

[Chelle-82]

The landlords haven't somehow reduced the income of the tenants who can't afford rent.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2015 at 17:09 ----------

 

You think they should ask you personally?

 

Oh you're here look!

 

Wondered how long until you popped up asking ridiculous questions.

 

The answer is NO.

 

I like what you did though.. You took the first part of my post and 'quoted' it, but left out the second part of my post which is where i explain i'd rather be in my position, paying my taxes and it going to whoever needs it! i never mentioned anything about the government writing to me with an expenditure form asking me to inform them where i think my taxes should be spent.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Chelle-82

[ubermaus]

Oh you're here look!

 

Wondered how long until you popped up asking ridiculous questions.

 

The answer is NO.

 

I like what you did though.. You took the first part of my post and 'quoted' it, but left out the second part of my post which is where i explain i'd rather be in my position, paying my taxes and it going to whoever needs it! i never mentioned anything about the government writing to me with an expenditure form asking me to inform them where i think my taxes should be spent.

 

In bold 'welcome to the club'. Cyclone is the only forumer I know who can take a n insiginificant quote out of context and create a whole thread about it!