banjodeano Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I see this morning the latest poll among labour voters puts Jeremy Corbyn in the lead for the leadership, to paraphrase " will this be the longest suicide vote in history". Before the recent election I heard a political commentator saying 500 seats in the country don't matter, elections are decided on 150 swing seats, so called Middle England, so South Yorkshire will always vote labour and the South East will always vote Tory. Tony Blair recognised this and though he is still hated by the left he won 3 elections for labour. Therefore it seems Its no good voting in who you might want as leader on ideological grounds but the best alternative who's acceptable to the country. I also read that at the moment whatever you may think of him Boris Johnson is the most popular politician in the country, (We're doomed captain Mannering). Slightly off subject the politicians I've heard recently who've impressed me have been John Mann labour and Zac Goldsmith and Jacob Rees Mogg Tory. Yes, and as have stated on numerous occasions, what is the point in voting for something if you are not going to have change? keepin things the same, just for the sake of having someone in power with the title of Labour is pointless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNorm Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 what is the point in voting for something if you are not going to have change? Is it possible there are changes we could agree on banjodeano? (Presume I'm a centre right member of the party.) Don't you fear a Tory victory in 2020 more than a Labour party that has centrist leanings? [going to have to leave that with you, my son wants the computer] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Is it possible there are changes we could agree on banjodeano? (Presume I'm a centre right member of the party.) Don't you fear a Tory victory in 2020 more than a Labour party that has centrist leanings? [going to have to leave that with you, my son wants the computer] I would say yes i do... But, lets just say that if Burnham won the leadership race, do you honestly believe that he would offer us anything much different than the Tories.? You can have a bad Government, or a really bad government. is that the choice? Corbyn wants to nail the multinational companies that make Billions and pay no tax? he wants to re nationalise the railways, why should we spend millions maintaining them, and then let private companies run them and take all the profit? and many many other policies he is bringing to the table When Burnham and the other two stooges chose to abstain from the voting on the welfare bill, that spoke volumes to the electorate, and the polls are reflecting that.. Thanks for the chat.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I would say yes i do... But, lets just say that if Burnham won the leadership race, do you honestly believe that he would offer us anything much different than the Tories.? You can have a bad Government, or a really bad government. is that the choice? Corbyn wants to nail the multinational companies that make Billions and pay no tax? he wants to re nationalise the railways, why should we spend millions maintaining them, and then let private companies run them and take all the profit? and many many other policies he is bringing to the table When Burnham and the other two stooges chose to abstain from the voting on the welfare bill, that spoke volumes to the electorate, and the polls are reflecting that.. Thanks for the chat.. And all he needs to do is win a leadership election and then a general election with workable majority. Do you honestly think that will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 And all he needs to do is win a leadership election and then a general election with workable majority. Do you honestly think that will happen? I dont have a crystal ball, but i sincerely hope so... most people would prefer the railway to be privatised, most people would prefer to see billionaires pay their tax...they are good policies that would be welcomed by the average Joe on the street.. but lets take one step at a time, first he has to win a leadership race whilst fighting all the biased media.. then if he is succesful he has five years getting his views across..who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I dont have a crystal ball, but i sincerely hope so... most people would prefer the railway to be privatised, most people would prefer to see billionaires pay their tax...they are good policies that would be welcomed by the average Joe on the street.. but lets take one step at a time, first he has to win a leadership race whilst fighting all the biased media.. then if he is succesful he has five years getting his views across..who knows? Why do you think he'll succeed when Michael foot - who was leader in a time when great swathes of heavy traditional industries were going down the pan and we had 3 million unemployed - failed to win anything by a distance? The country has collectively moved to right since then. I admire his pluck but he's got as much chance of getting in the White House than he has 10 Downing Street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I dont have a crystal ball, but i sincerely hope so... most people would prefer the railway to be privatised, most people would prefer to see billionaires pay their tax...they are good policies that would be welcomed by the average Joe on the street.. but lets take one step at a time, first he has to win a leadership race whilst fighting all the biased media.. then if he is succesful he has five years getting his views across..who knows? Really? Ask those who have just had 200% price hikes or the East Coast Mainline customers who had a great and well liked service until it was sold to Stagecoach/Virgin...who then upped the prices 100%. As the ex Transport Secretary said himself - "British railways are a "rich man's toy", Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has told MPs. He was responding to a question about regulating fare prices on the planned high speed rail link so that it would be a "railway for everybody". He said it was an "uncomfortable fact" that trains were already used by the better-off and said some fares were "eye-wateringly expensive"." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerousedd Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yes, and as have stated on numerous occasions, what is the point in voting for something if you are not going to have change? keepin things the same, just for the sake of having someone in power with the title of Labour is pointless I agree, why vote labour if their policies mirror the conservatives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjodeano Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) Really? Ask those who have just had 200% price hikes or the East Coast Mainline customers who had a great and well liked service until it was sold to Stagecoach/Virgin...who then upped the prices 100%. As the ex Transport Secretary said himself - "British railways are a "rich man's toy", Transport Secretary Philip Hammond has told MPs. He was responding to a question about regulating fare prices on the planned high speed rail link so that it would be a "railway for everybody". He said it was an "uncomfortable fact" that trains were already used by the better-off and said some fares were "eye-wateringly expensive"." isnt that what i am talking about.?? taking it back into public ownership to stop the price rises to make profit for the rich..?? or am i missing something? please enlighten me if i am, i have had a few shandy's... ---------- Post added 02-08-2015 at 23:22 ---------- Why do you think he'll succeed when Michael foot - who was leader in a time when great swathes of heavy traditional industries were going down the pan and we had 3 million unemployed - failed to win anything by a distance? The country has collectively moved to right since then. I admire his pluck but he's got as much chance of getting in the White House than he has 10 Downing Street. i think time has moved on tinfoil, we are in a new era...the time of austerity is upon us....but not for the rich it seems .......EDIT......sorry Taxman....typo error, i mean nationalised not privatised...please forgive my stupidity.... Edited August 3, 2015 by banjodeano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrNorm Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I agree, why vote labour if their policies mirror the conservatives Well, you see, that's an opinion not a fact ... Those who say Blairite = Tory Lite are missing an opportunity to make common cause with a potential ally (the Labour Centre/Right). (not that I'm defending Blair's record on you know what) Let me try to explain. I read in the paper today that Corbyn is a republican at heart but he accepts "the Queen can stay for the time being". Is this guy some kind of pussy? Has he no principles? Why won't he defend what he believes in? Why does he effectively support the monarchy, just like the Tories? The reason why, is that, he knows it's a lost cause at this time. I too am a republican, but there's other winnable issues we must address first. Abolishing the monarchy must wait, no matter how passionately some of us feel about that. So when you complain "why vote labour if their policies mirror the conservatives" well, just bear in mind that it depends how far to the left you are. In some respects, Corbyn could be seen as Tory-Lite because he's not prepared to pursue his republican ideals. Let the left work on common cause, winnable fights. mutual interest, co-operation and not label everyone who isn't as extreme as they are, as being the enemy. ---------- Post added 02-08-2015 at 23:44 ---------- ... lets just say that if Burnham won the leadership race, do you honestly believe that he would offer us anything much different than the Tories.? Absolutely, yes I do. But let's get real about politics. Corbyn promises "roles for Blairites if he wins". Does that disappoint you that a politician is prepared to compromise? Corbyn wants to nail the multinational companies that make Billions and pay no tax I'd agree that everyone, every company regardless of size, should pay their fair share of tax and many companies are [legally] avoiding what they morally owe. This needs addressing. In order to do this requires the support of a large number of people. We need to talk about fairness and justice (and believe in those principles) so that we attract as much support as possible to the cause. ... and not try to outdo each other on our extremism (as in Life of Brian's Popular Front of Judea, People's Front of Judea etc splitters!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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