Should Labour move right or left?

[Anna B]

there are also folks who never achieve anything in life and you have to think an mp who has been overlooked for 2 decades probably hasn't much to offer.

 

there were a few defining moments leading up to the 2015 election. one was miliband at the leeds debate trying to claim labour hadn't overspent in office. the next was the electorate turning up to vote thinking the miliband could be prime minister the next day. labour of course picked the wrong leader in 2010 and they were lost from that moment. it looks like they will do the same again and that will be apparent when some oaf appears in a live debate talking about spending £billions renationalising things we can't afford and the electorate realising that they are in danger of yet another tax and spend labour government.

 

you are right. tony benn was a great orator. he was also unelectable as prime minister.

 

Far from it. Between 2005 and 2010 Jeremy Corbyn defied the whips 238 times (that's 25% of the votes.) You don't do that and expect to advance your career any. Politicians and parties tend to want 'yes men' around them for an easier ride. However I do think it indicates a man of convictions and integrity.

 

Having looked him up, (start with Wikipedia,) I liked what I read about him. He is far from being inexperienced, has grit and determination in spades, and he's nobody's fool. He probably knows more about real politics than David Cameron ever did. He's been re-elected in his constituency 7 times, so he must have got something right.

Edited August 12, 2015 by Anna B

[I1L2T3]

What about Winston Churchill, would you class him as a "doddering old fool"?

He was Prime Minister in his seventies.

 

If you must call people "fools" refer to the list of names you posted, most of them are Conservatives.

 

Before he was a doddering old fool he was a doddering young fool.

 

His career in the military and politics prior to becoming PM was a litany of error and disaster.

 

But as a wartime leader we could not have asked for more. He was astoundingly effective.

[taxman]

It appears that if Labour move to the left some MP's will throw their toys out.

 

Nice to know he only believes in Democracy when it's his friend winning.

 

Publicity seeking expletive.

[drummonds]

It appears that if Labour move to the left some MP's will throw their toys out.

 

Nice to know he only believes in Democracy when it's his friend winning.

 

Publicity seeking expletive.

 

that's the labour party for you. disintegrating before your eyes. :hihi:

 

wasn't it michael foot and the sdp last time?

[janie48]

Before he was a doddering old fool he was a doddering young fool.

 

His career in the military and politics prior to becoming PM was a litany of error and disaster.

 

But as a wartime leader we could not have asked for more. He was astoundingly effective.

I very much admire Churchill, but acknowledge his failings.

[*Belle*]

Far from it. Between 2005 and 2010 Jeremy Corbyn defied the whips 238 times (that's 25% of the votes.) You don't do that and expect to advance your career any. Politicians and parties tend to want 'yes men' around them for an easier ride. However I do think it indicates a man of convictions and integrity.

 

Having looked him up, (start with Wikipedia,) I liked what I read about him. He is far from being inexperienced, has grit and determination in spades, and he's nobody's fool. He probably knows more about real politics than David Cameron ever did. He's been re-elected in his constituency 7 times, so he must have got something right.

 

I couldn't agree more. Would he ever become Prime Minister?... probably not, the establishment wouldn't allow it. Would he widen the debate and ask the awkward questions?.. Absobloodylutely.

[I1L2T3]

It appears that if Labour move to the left some MP's will throw their toys out.

 

Nice to know he only believes in Democracy when it's his friend winning.

 

Publicity seeking expletive.

 

It's hilarious. The Labour right might as well join the Tory party. They stand for the same things after all, and are obsessed with the pursuit of power, with neoliberalism, and are dedicated to the service of the corporate world.

 

People seem terrified of Corbyn and it's not just the Blair-ites. Even some Tories don't seem as happy as they should be about the prospect of such a no-hoper getting in as leader. The right wing media are unusually aggressive.

 

You'd think k somebody was about to blow apart the cosy neoliberal Lib-Lab-Con consensus.

Edited August 12, 2015 by I1L2T3

[janie48]

Churchill was a brilliant orator. As was Michel Foot, which MPs of all parties regardless of opposing views, highly respected him for.

[I1L2T3]

I couldn't agree more. Would he ever become Prime Minister?... probably not, the establishment wouldn't allow it. Would he widen the debate and ask the awkward questions?.. Absobloodylutely.

 

They know it. Corbyn knows it. Corbyn if he wins isn't going to lead Labour into an election.He would be 76 at the end of the next parliament in 2025.

 

Corbyn is planning to be on the scene for just a few years.

 

Like you say nobody in the neoliberal consensus wants some upstart spending the next three years asking a lot of very difficult questions. It's a terrifying prospect for them.

[blake]

Anyway, Gladstone, considered an excellent PM, was 82 when he was elected.

 

no he wasn't. Gladstone was age 59 when he first became Prime Minister, never mind anything else - and he'd already been the Chancellor of the Exchequer for 18 years before that. That is a frontline politician, like Churchill had been a frontline politician for thirty years before he became head of his party or faction.

 

Corbyn has got no experience and is like a little insect compared to them. Even if he wins this 2015 Labour leadership election there is no way his leadership will last through the entire parliament.