Should Labour move right or left?

[drummonds]

John Smith would have won.

 

There is no way the Tories would have won in 1997. They were utterly disgraced and out of favour with the public. It wasn't just the Blair factor that got Labour over the line.

 

Brown, Beckett, Darling could have got Labour into power in 97 maybe not with as great a majority but the Tories were never ever going to win.

 

i very much doubt that. it is easy to look at smith through the rose tinted. he never had to put a policy to the nation in an election.

 

i could see the appeal of blair. he wasn't pushing a socialist agenda and i know many folk who voted for his government, the only times they ever voted labour. they certainly didn't vote for brown and i doubt they would have voted for beckett or darling unless they abandoned their socialist policies.

 

ah those heady days of 1992 when kinnock was in sheffield certain of victory. folk went to the polls asking themselves do we really want this prat as pm? it seems the answer was no. like brown and ed he too was unelectable.

[El Cid]

ah those heady days of 1992 when kinnock was in sheffield certain of victory. folk went to the polls asking themselves do we really want this prat as pm? it seems the answer was no. like brown and ed he too was unelectable.

 

The reason why the Labour party failed to get elected in 1983 was because of the split with Roy Jenkyns and co, they got 25.4% of the vote.

Many of our recent elections are decided by whether or not the left(Labour) have a split vote.

[JFKvsNixon]

Has there been any discussion considering the Labour MPs and Corbyn? The MPs were elected representing certain political outlook. How will they react to a leader with a completely different outlook to theirs?

[drummonds]

The reason why the Labour party failed to get elected in 1983 was because of the split with Roy Jenkyns and co, they got 25.4% of the vote.

Many of our recent elections are decided by whether or not the left(Labour) have a split vote.

 

ah yes. the gang of four. 25.4%..that's a lot of votes for four people to take from labour. i always put labour's diabolical showing in 1983 down to them having an awful left wing leader and not only the gang of four defecting, but the electorate rejecting the left wing agenda. but that could never happen again......could it?

 

---------- Post added 15-08-2015 at 14:38 ----------

 

Has there been any discussion considering the Labour MPs and Corbyn? The MPs were elected representing certain political outlook. How will they react to a leader with a completely different outlook to theirs?

 

some will take it on the chin and carry on as normal. some will reject the whips are vote against party policy. others will probably break with the party and become independents or join another party as a sitting mp, like the gang of four did before.

Edited August 15, 2015 by drummonds

[Eater Sundae]

I am not Tory but I guarantee you the right wing are not panicking at all. They can hardly contain their glee at so unexpectedly witnessing Labour shooting themselves in the head and going off into the stratosphere like this. That right wing glee is only tempered by the realisation that even if Corbyn is elected leader there is surely no way he will still be there by the time 2020 comes around like they wish he would be, as that would guarantee a Tory victory of totally gargantuan proportions that would dwarf any of Thatcher's majorities. However, even when Corbyn is replaced in two or three years, like he surely will be, the damage will have already been done and the Tories home and dry for another five years after 2020.

 

Or his replacement in about 3 years time is seen as "clean" and not encumbered by past mistakes and socialist promises, and so can beat the Tories. Whereas a more centrist leader now would still be seen as part of the currently unelectable Labour party. It could prove to be a good short term move by Labour to temporarily jump to the left.

[Eric Arthur]

You need to take a look at the Mail and Telegraph. Almost daily hatchet jobs on Corbyn. They aren't celebrating what is happening.

Articles in the Mail or Telegraph aren't written to affect how Labour Party members cast their vote because the average Labour voter isn't usually thought of as a Mail or Telegraph reader.

 

Most Labour votes struggle to read the part of the paper that says "NOW WASH YOUR HANDS" but the ones who got a third class degree in sociology or surfing technology are being told to vote for Andy Burnham by the Daily Mirror. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/back-andy-burnham-next-labour-6255365

Edited August 15, 2015 by Eric Arthur

[tinfoilhat]

John Smith would have won.

 

There is no way the Tories would have won in 1997. They were utterly disgraced and out of favour with the public. It wasn't just the Blair factor that got Labour over the line.

 

Brown, Beckett, Darling could have got Labour into power in 97 maybe not with as great a majority but the Tories were never ever going to win.

 

There shouldn't have been a way for the Tories to win in 92 either but they did. In fact I recall having to do an essay for my politics A level titled Why labour lost the 92 election.

[newcomer01]

Left , left of Centre,Centre,Right of Centre,and Right.On top of that we also have far left and far right

Not being very clever ,is there someone brave enough and clever enough that can explain where the differences are and how can the layman can tell.

 

Say for example ,How would I know if I am voting for someone Left of centre rather than someone right of centre,or just the plain right?

 

Another problem that I have is with spin .How do I tell if spin is true or lies?

Now I know the difference between black and white I think. However ,if a spin doctor says that in fact white is black ,how do I decide that I have not been lied to all these years!!!!!

It is so confusing.

 

Then to top it all ,"New Politics" What is new politics ?What is the difference between them?

When did we change from old politics to new politics?

I am certain had it been advertised better then I would have seen it in the Sheffield Star then I wouldn`t have missed the transition.

 

There is one thing that I have concluded.There are a lot of very clever people on SF who can see the future and can see the fate of the Labour party,and how Jeremy Corbyn will ruin it for them and hand another five years of power to the Conservatives.I imagine that those clever people have started putting large quantities of money the way of the bookies.Its got to be a better investment on such surety than putting cash on such low interests at the bank.Seems to me that all these mystical people have got their future finances all sorted .

 

If only I was a betting man...........

[drummonds]

Left , left of Centre,Centre,Right of Centre,and Right.On top of that we also have far left and far right

Not being very clever ,is there someone brave enough and clever enough that can explain where the differences are and how can the layman can tell.

 

Say for example ,How would I know if I am voting for someone Left of centre rather than someone right of centre,or just the plain right?

 

Another problem that I have is with spin .How do I tell if spin is true or lies?

Now I know the difference between black and white I think. However ,if a spin doctor says that in fact white is black ,how do I decide that I have not been lied to all these years!!!!!

It is so confusing.

 

Then to top it all ,"New Politics" What is new politics ?What is the difference between them?

When did we change from old politics to new politics?

I am certain had it been advertised better then I would have seen it in the Sheffield Star then I wouldn`t have missed the transition.

 

There is one thing that I have concluded.There are a lot of very clever people on SF who can see the future and can see the fate of the Labour party,and how Jeremy Corbyn will ruin it for them and hand another five years of power to the Conservatives.I imagine that those clever people have started putting large quantities of money the way of the bookies.Its got to be a better investment on such surety than putting cash on such low interests at the bank.Seems to me that all these mystical people have got their future finances all sorted .

 

If only I was a betting man...........

 

sadly you have to stake £500 to win £200 on the tories winning the next election. it seems the bookies know something you don't.

[I1L2T3]

Articles in the Mail or Telegraph aren't written to affect how Labour Party members cast their vote because the average Labour voter isn't usually thought of as a Mail or Telegraph reader.

 

Most Labour votes struggle to read the part of the paper that says "NOW WASH YOUR HANDS" but the ones who got a third class degree in sociology or surfing technology are being told to vote for Andy Burnham by the Daily Mirror. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/back-andy-burnham-next-labour-6255365

 

It doesn't matter who the articles are written for. They are getting published.

 

---------- Post added 15-08-2015 at 20:00 ----------

 

i very much doubt that. it is easy to look at smith through the rose tinted. he never had to put a policy to the nation in an election.

 

i could see the appeal of blair. he wasn't pushing a socialist agenda and i know many folk who voted for his government, the only times they ever voted labour. they certainly didn't vote for brown and i doubt they would have voted for beckett or darling unless they abandoned their socialist policies.

 

ah those heady days of 1992 when kinnock was in sheffield certain of victory. folk went to the polls asking themselves do we really want this prat as pm? it seems the answer was no. like brown and ed he too was unelectable.

 

So you think the Tories could have won in 1997?

 

How old are you? Do you even remember how rotten their tenure had become, how fed up people were with them?

 

They were toast.