Should Labour move right or left?

[Anna B]

Even if Jeremy Corbyn wins the leadership of the Labour party, his influence will be zero, while the Conservatives are in charge.

 

He will make alternative proposals which will probably be dismissed out of hand by the Tories, and which will probably be received very negatively by the press. I would like to see some discussion, but suspect the Tories will do all they can to either ignore or disparage his ideas, and unfortunately they are the ones in charge of the microphone

 

The only backing he might get is from the general public, but will they support him if his ideas get nothing but barracking? Politics is a complicated business, with some very difficult issues, but politicians prefer to deal in easy sound bites and disparaging the opposition. Corbyn says he will not deal in personal attacks, but unfortunately their's no guarantee the other side will be grown up enough to do likewise.

 

That's a pity. Because new ways of doing things deserve to at least be properly debated. I think the general population deserve that. However Corbyn in opposition will probably rarely be heard.

[drummonds]

It doesn't matter who the articles are written for. They are getting published.

 

---------- Post added 15-08-2015 at 20:00 ----------

 

 

So you think the Tories could have won in 1997?

 

How old are you? Do you even remember how rotten their tenure had become, how fed up people were with them?

 

They were toast.

 

old enough to remember the winter of discontent and the fact that blair was the only electable labour leader in the last 4 decades

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Weren't all Labour leaders elected to their office?

[Vague_Boy]

There shouldn't have been a way for the Tories to win in 92 either but they did.

 

A change of leader by the Conservatives gave them a short term boost. The woeful leadership of the Welsh Windbag Kinnochio hampered Labour.

[blake]

Corbyn in opposition will probably rarely be heard.

 

if he is there to lead Labour into 2020, his successor will be heard even less than him, as Labour will probably be reduced to a rump, with a double-figure number of MP's, if he does.

 

Corbyn is not an electoral liability. Foot, was an electoral liability in 1983 for sure. Kinnock, in 1992 (but not 1987), was also an electoral liability. Miliband, in 2015, was probably an electoral liability as well.

 

but Corbyn isn't like them. He isn't an electoral liability. He's an electoral CATASTROPHE.

[I1L2T3]

A change of leader by the Conservatives gave them a short term boost. The woeful leadership of the Welsh Windbag Kinnochio hampered Labour.

 

In reality Kinnock took a train crash of a party that had been split by the SDP and moved it much closer to gaining power. Smith and then Blair built on that. Kinnock doesn't get enough credit for it really.

 

As quite often with politics there are longer term trends that span parliaments.

 

---------- Post added 16-08-2015 at 09:49 ----------

 

if he is there to lead Labour into 2020, his successor will be heard even less than him, as Labour will probably be reduced to a rump, with a double-figure number of MP's, if he does.

 

Corbyn is not an electoral liability. Foot, was an electoral liability in 1983 for sure. Kinnock, in 1992 (but not 1987), was also an electoral liability. Miliband, in 2015, was probably an electoral liability as well.

 

but Corbyn isn't like them. He isn't an electoral liability. He's an electoral CATASTROPHE.

 

People said the same sort of things about the Tories and Hague, Howard and IDS. Look where they are now.

[drummonds]

 

People said the same sort of things about the Tories and Hague, Howard and IDS. Look where they are now.

 

ineed they did. all unelectable and back to obscurity.

[birobasher]

If they move any further right they might as well go and sit on the government benches. It's impossible for Labour to oppose when they've got one and a half feet on the Tories' ideological ground. Conservatives cheering at the idea of Corbyn being leader should think twice - a leader not cowed by the right wing press and not trying to appease Tory voters can attack government policy with full force.

 

When the other candidates bang on about being 'unelectable', they're shooting at the wrong target. Getting elected is a means to an end, not the end itself. What New Labour did wrong was abandon any pretence at trying to persuade voters of the worth of Labour policy, and instead present themselves as a better managed Tory party. If you ask the electorate about supposedly left wing (or is that 'hard left' now?) policy like public ownership of utilities and transport, publicly funded NHS and BBC, still they approve of these, despite decades of relentless propaganda from the media-controlling super rich.

 

There is no functioning democracy if all potential parties of government arrive at a 'consensus' in the way the Tories and Labour have done. It's a de facto one party state. We need a Labour party that is distinct to Conservatives, and challenges them fearlessly.

[DrNorm]

Many of our recent elections are decided by whether or not the left(Labour) have a split vote.

 

And many think the 2020 election will be decided by a split Labour vote, however ... I'll give Corbyn credit for what could be thought of as a peace offering: He's reported to have launched "an audacious bid to defeat his rivals by pledging pro-business reforms to back entrepreneurs"

 

Now I didn't expect that ... especially as his own campaign leaflet posted to party members makes no such reference. In fact his leaflet is the most scant and bland of the lot (apart from Liz Kendall's which is presumably still in the post). Corbyn makes a brief statement on the back page of his own leaflet ... promising to work for a new kind of politics, a more inclusive, less top-down, kinder politics ... blah blah more prosperous ... connect to all voters ... everyone together ... this vision. (ie no meat at all).

 

But anyway, credit for the "peace offering".

 

---------- Post added 16-08-2015 at 11:24 ----------

 

Getting elected is a means to an end, not the end itself.

 

True, it's the beginning of the real work. The starting point. You can't say that's not important. If getting elected is not the means to achieve your end, then what is?

 

We need a Labour party that is distinct to Conservatives, and challenges them fearlessly.

 

... but we mustn't be so distinct that we lose the voters. If the party can't represent the electorate they can't do anything.

 

You have to prioritise winnable battles. Even Corbyn recognises this - he's a republican, but now is not the time to launch an assault on the monarchy. It's not a winnable battle. On other matters, he and his supporters need to make more effort to connect with the electorate and think about what they CAN achieve in the long list of priorities.

 

And again, well done to Corbyn for his pro-business statement - this doesn't mean he has one foot in the Tory camp. You can still oppose speculators and tax avoiders while supporting the businesses that provide fair work and fair pay.

Edited August 16, 2015 by DrNorm

[birobasher]

...

Now I didn't expect that ... especially as his own campaign leaflet posted to party members makes no such reference. In fact his leaflet is the most scant and bland of the lot (apart from Liz Kendall's which is presumably still in the post). Corbyn makes a brief statement on the back page of his own leaflet ... promising to work for a new kind of politics, a more inclusive, less top-down, kinder politics ... blah blah more prosperous ... connect to all voters ... everyone together ... this vision. (ie no meat at all).

 

But anyway, credit for the "peace offering".

 

Listening to him interviewed on TV or internet, he's made plain that he thinks small to medium businesses should be the backbone of economic recovery and that the current government's policies simply aren't helping them.

 

I think perhaps Corbyn is concentrating on putting his message across to potential supporters in the party, frequently in person, as his many packed out public meetings show. This is an election for party leader, not prime minister. The electorate and media are spectators here.