Should Labour move right or left?

[Anna B]

This moron on the TV is saying the same thing Anna - 'this shows it's what the people want' :hihi:

 

The people? Some far-lefties and some Tories infiltrating a vote. Hardly 'the people'.

 

I see Tristam Hunt has just pulled out of the shadow cabinet, probably one of the few respectable people in the party.

 

I've not seen what Ummuna has said yet. The 2 women will probably follow Hunt, and I would expect Burnham to start sending Christmas cards to Corbyn to try and win a place somewhere.

 

I'll say what I said on another thread - Give him a chance.

 

I don't have a crystal ball, who knows what will happen.

 

He won with 60% of the vote. That's of people who are interested in politics and follow him.

I suspect the majority of the population barely know who he is yet, but he will now get more exposure and they can decide for themselves. So far people who have gone to his rallies have been pleasantly surprised, (me included.)

 

Whether he can get the media on his side is going to be crucial. There are a lot of diehard Tories in charge of the media, I doubt he will get a particularly good press in the most widely read tabloids.

[drummonds]

This moron on the TV is saying the same thing Anna - 'this shows it's what the people want' :hihi:

 

The people? Some far-lefties and some Tories infiltrating a vote. Hardly 'the people'.

 

I see Tristam Hunt has just pulled out of the shadow cabinet, probably one of the few respectable people in the party.

 

I've not seen what Ummuna has said yet. The 2 women will probably follow Hunt, and I would expect Burnham to start sending Christmas cards to Corbyn to try and win a place somewhere.

 

do you stay or should you go. i remember the talk of politicians tainted by being close to brown, blair and miliband. i suppose sticking around and being part of the shadow cabinet could easily end a politician's career. it's not as though serviving in the shadow cabinet is likely to lead to a cabinet post in a corbyn government.

[TJC1]

12th September 2015.

 

Well I think we have our answer.

 

Labour has moved to the left, with the election of Jeremy Corbyn.

 

Undoubtedly a good, honest man of high ideals, now let's see if a principled man of integrity can survive in the Bear Pit that is Westminster....

 

Odds anyone?

 

The odds of him staying leader are good...He won a mandate from all categories of voter.

 

The first job is to unite the party and put out a coherent message.

[Vague_Boy]

If I was a builder and could build a block of flats, would I build 'affordable housing' which I could sell for £200,000 per unit. Or Luxury flats aimed at the super rich where each unit can sell for £70million. Sure the spec would be more expensive, but the profit is still huge.

 

The kind of places where the super rich might want to live are among the highest land values in the world, which eats into any profits to a degree.

 

You can't build in Penge or Edmonton and expect them to leave Knightsbridge or Kensington for such down-at-heel places.

 

Central London tops world as most expensive city for construction

 

Alexander Jan, director at Arup, the engineering consultancy, which has worked on HS1, Britain’s first high-speed railway line, and the Shard, Europe’s tallest skyscraper, says that even if the cost of everything else were the same, the cost of acquiring land and buildings for projects would push up the price.

 

“Whenever you need to build a new railway or Underground line you have to acquire certain pieces of land or property just to put a shaft or substation in for tunnelling and ventilation or a substation for power,” he says. “It’s inevitably top dollar because it is in central London.”

 

LINK

 

Likewise you can't build affordable housing on the most expensive land in the world. If you're going to build in central London you either need to build something aimed at the kind of people who can afford to live there or be working on a government funded project.

[Anna B]

The kind of places where the super rich might want to live are among the highest land values in the world, which eats into any profits to a degree.

 

You can't build in Penge or Edmonton and expect them to leave Knightsbridge or Kensington for such down-at-heel places.

 

 

 

LINK

 

Likewise you can't build affordable housing on the most expensive land in the world. If you're going to build in central London you either need to build something aimed at the kind of people who can afford to live there or be working on a government funded project.

 

And what about all the people who work in central London, servicing the need of the rest: firemen, police, teachers, nurses shop workers, cleaners, small businesses etc. most of whom are not particularly well paid? Where are they supposed to live?

[DrNorm]

The first job is to unite the party and put out a coherent message.

 

Uniting the party will require a lot of good will from all sides. More than has been demonstrated during the campaign.

 

A coherent message about social justice and equal opportunities, ought to be easy enough to come up with ... but I wouldn't hand over that task to the likes of Len McCluskey!

 

"I'm going to share with you a secret," McCluskey joked. "About 17 weeks ago, I was listening to the debate. I was listening to Liz [Kendall], I was listening to Yvette [Cooper]. I was listening to Andy [burnham]. I kind of reached for the nearest, sharpest, object so I could slit my wrists. Because the blandness and the sameness of that was something that was depressing."

 

No Len, you're not bland, but there are worse things than being bland.

 

Sometime I think politicians should be bland. Just like airline pilots. Not many people want pilots to deliberately make the flight more interesting by shaking us all up. Professionals are there to serve, not to entertain.

[birobasher]

With a majority across all groups of the party, any thoughts of a Blairite coup will have receded a fair bit. Neither is this a three pound revolution. I gather many supporters were either rejected or never received ballot papers, so Corbyn would've still won on the first round without them.

 

The Tories need to get their story straight: up until now they've been saying Corbyn is unelectable, and political suicide for Labour. Suddenly he's become a 'danger to Britain', but that suggests he is electable, meaning the public might like his message. So apparently, there is an alternative after all!

[drummonds]

 

The Tories need to get their story straight: up until now they've been saying Corbyn is unelectable, and political suicide for Labour. Suddenly he's become a 'danger to Britain', but that suggests he is electable, meaning the public might like his message. So apparently, there is an alternative after all!

 

i think you are trying to over analyse. the tories are saying corbyn is unelectable and a danger to britain. at least half of the labour mps in westminster are saying the same. i'm sure he appeals to the far left of the labour party who make the most noise, but the middle ground voters who teetered between labour and the libdems won't be as impressed.

 

i expect far more demos, strikes and marches between now and 2020. that won't help this country, but neither will it help labour into government.

Edited September 13, 2015 by drummonds

[Anna B]

i think you are trying to over analyse. the tories are saying corbyn is unelectable and a danger to britain. at least half of the labour mps in westminster are saying the same. i'm sure he appeals to the far left of the labour party who make the most noise, but the middle ground voters who teetered between labour and the libdems won't be as impressed.

 

i expect far more demos, strikes and marches between now and 2020. that won't help this country, but neither will it help labour into government.

 

I think he will win a lot of Labour MPs over when they get to know him and what he's about. Otherwise, why are they in the Labour party?

[birobasher]

i think you are trying to over analyse. the tories are saying corbyn is unelectable and a danger to britain. at least half of the labour mps in westminster are saying the same. i'm sure he appeals to the far left of the labour party who make the most noise, but the middle ground voters who teetered between labour and the libdems won't be as impressed.

 

i expect far more demos, strikes and marches between now and 2020. that won't help this country, but neither will it help labour into government.

 

You can't be an actual 'danger to Britain' in any practical sense if you're not elected to power. That's the logical contradiction in Tory arguments. To say he's an active danger logically suggests he has a chance of being elected.

 

Corbyn isn't 'far left' by any means. It's just the locus of UK politics has shifted so far to the right. And his majority in the party is convincing across members, affiliates and supporters. MPs are elected by those people, and should listen to them.

 

---------- Post added 13-09-2015 at 10:40 ----------

 

I think he will win a lot of Labour MPs over when they get to know him and what he's about. Otherwise, why are they in the Labour party?

 

The impression I got from his speech was him saying to dubious MPs 'This is what I stand for, do you?' If the answer is yes, why wouldn't they support him? I think there are quite a few MPs who've bitten their tongues since 1994 because they thought shedding their principles was the only way to get something even resembling Labour policy into government. Now they're perhaps seeing the mist raise and the possibility that a majority is possible by providing an alternative to Tory policy.

 

---------- Post added 13-09-2015 at 10:42 ----------

 

 

i expect far more demos, strikes and marches between now and 2020. that won't help this country, but neither will it help labour into government.

 

Demos, strikes and marches are happening now, because ordinary UK people are reacting to the crimes committed against them by a government of the rich minority. That's just the tip of the iceberg as far as the majority who oppose the Tories is concerned.