loraward Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The current population of the UK stands at 63.4 million the total strength of the British armed forces including reserves is 186,000. Ex members of the forces make up nearly 12% of the homeless, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CGMQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fprogrammes%2Fb00b0cms&ei=VE9gVa6wH6Oy7Qa0goOYAg&usg=AFQjCNFbRX-DGR9QfWqxKP6CgjVcVO7dWw&bvm=bv.93990622,d.ZGU&cad=rja They make up 10% of prisoners, http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDcQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fcrime%2Fone-in-10-prisoners-is-a-former-soldier-new-research-reveals-7944479.html&ei=D1NgVebxO8fO7gbD94CgCg&usg=AFQjCNG_BYmxkIPQj5ay-Ryp6UTeQ6nDTA&bvm=bv.93990622,d.ZGU So your point is? I made a statement, was asked for evidence which supports that statement, so I supplied evidence which supports that statement. Some pubs use their right to refuse service to withhold service from squaddies, probably because of the trouble that follows squaddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I made a statement, was asked for evidence which supports that statement, so I supplied evidence which supports that statement. Some pubs use their right to refuse service to withhold service from squaddies, probably because of the trouble that follows squaddies. Then once again they would be acting in a discriminatory manner and in the wrong. Everyone has the right to be judged on their own actions and not on someone else's previous actions who just happen to be from the same 'group'. It has been my experience over many years of foreign holidays that if there is a group acting in an obnoxious manner and interfering with other holiday makers enjoyment there is a better than even chance that they will be English/British. The vast majority of English/British holidaymakers however behave in a perfectly decent and reasonable manner to the point that they are amongst the most polite. How would you feel if you were judged against the lowest standard of your 'group' and refused entry becuase some prats had made fools of themselves the night before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) Then once again they would be acting in a discriminatory manner and in the wrong. Everyone has the right to be judged on their own actions and not on someone else's previous actions who just happen to be from the same 'group'. It has been my experience over many years of foreign holidays that if there is a group acting in an obnoxious manner and interfering with other holiday makers enjoyment there is a better than even chance that they will be English/British. The vast majority of English/British holidaymakers however behave in a perfectly decent and reasonable manner to the point that they are amongst the most polite. How would you feel if you were judged against the lowest standard of your 'group' and refused entry becuase some prats had made fools of themselves the night before? Businesses act in the best interests of their business and customers, so if Manchester united fans trash the pub, the landlord will very likley ban all Manchester united fans in the future despite the fact that most of them didn't trash the pub. Insurance companies also discriminate based on the probability of something bad happening, so even though a 17 year old driver has had no accidents they will be penalised because its very common for 17 years olds to have accidents. I don't want businesses to be forced to provide me with a service, I prefer to use businesses that want to provide me with the serve they offer. Would you seriously eat a burger that was made by someone that didn't actuality want to make it for you? Edited May 23, 2015 by loraward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Businesses act in the best interests of their business and customers, so if Manchester united fans trash the pub, the landlord will very likley ban all Manchester united fans in the future despite the fact that most of them didn't trash the pub. Insurance companies also discriminate based on the probability of something bad happening, so even though a 17 year old driver has had no accidents they will be penalised because its very common for 17 years olds to have accidents. I don't want businesses to be forced to provide me with a service, I prefer to use businesses that want to provide me with the serve they offer. Would you seriously eat a burger that was made by someone that didn't actuality want to make it for you? None of the above is a fair comparison with discrimination against a particular race, ethnic group or way of life though is it? Football supporters for instance understand that there are morons amongst all clubs supporters who's only real interest is aggro. Therefore we tend to accept the situation without taking it personally because it isn't personal. But banning someone because they were born into a particular family is unacceptable. You appear to think that it isn't, and that therefore it is acceptable to pick and chose who you provide your services to based upon prejudice. I and a number of others on here disagree with you, and more importantly so does the law of the land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 None of the above is a fair comparison with discrimination against a particular race, ethnic group or way of life though is it? Football supporters for instance understand that there are morons amongst all clubs supporters who's only real interest is aggro. Therefore we tend to accept the situation without taking it personally because it isn't personal. But banning someone because they were born into a particular family is unacceptable. You appear to think that it isn't, and that therefore it is acceptable to pick and chose who you provide your services to based upon prejudice. I and a number of others on here disagree with you, and more importantly so does the law of the land. Why is it not a fair comparison, in both cases someone is treated differently to the majority based on the behavour of other people from that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 You're doing it again. Strawman. I think you need to look up what a strawman argument is. You seem to be to be using it for an argument you can't counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 In the 2011 census just 0.1% of people –about 58,000 – identified themselves as "Gypsy or Irish Traveller". One in 20 inmates – or 5% – told Her Majesty's Inspectorate of Prisons (HMIP) that they considered themselves to be Gypsy, Romany or Traveller in 2012-13, compared with 4% the previous year. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/mar/11/gypsies-roma-travellers-over-represented-jails-england-wales-prisons Even on the lowest estimates … it is clear that prisoners of Gypsy, Romany and Traveller backgrounds are significantly over-represented in the prison population. http://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/prisons/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/04/gypsies-romany-travellers-findings.pdf That could suggest 1. They are more likely to be imprisoned 2. They are disproportionately targeted by the police Other minorities suffer the same issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw47 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Why is it not a fair comparison, in both cases someone is treated differently to the majority based on the behavour of other people from that group. Difficult to believe that you can't see why it's not a fair comparison. Being a supporter of a particular football club is incidental to the rest of your life. The only time that you are discriminated against is when you choose to attend a football match. Even then I tend to resent it but it's a temporary inconvenience which I have learned to put up with over the years, it happens only in the football season and then only for the duration of the game plus traveling to and from the match. Imagine if that state of affairs were to be imposed on you every day of your life. That's the situation with ethnicity and race plus lifestyle in the case of the gay community for instance. Discrimination is disgusting, and when you take into consideration that everyone can be discriminated against for some reason - should some other person choose to - condoning it is a pretty stupid position to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 That could suggest 1. They are more likely to be imprisoned 2. They are disproportionately targeted by the police Other minorities suffer the same issues. If you'd ever had any encounters with gypsies you'd know they have earned their reputation. Asking people to not prejudge gypsies is like ask a gazelle not to prejudge a lion. People who ignore form and experience are the ones Mother Nature likes to weed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 If you'd ever had any encounters with gypsies you'd know they have earned their reputation. Asking people to not prejudge gypsies is like ask a gazelle not to prejudge a lion. People who ignore form and experience are the ones Mother Nature likes to weed out. More lazy stereotyping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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