Public don't want HS2!

[SteveJ68]

The same flawed argument was applied to the Seven Bridge, Humber Bridge and Channel Tunnel. Initial usage patterns and long term outcomes are not always the same- best example is Cardiff.

People and businesses require government to organise and promote infrastructure such as utilities and transport.

 

 

People who currently fly.

People who currently dive.

People who currently go by coach.

People who like to travel.

People who have to travel.

People who currently use other rail links.

People who can make use of better connections in the UK.

People who can make use of better connections to Europe.

People who can make use of better connections to airports around the UK.

New industries and business that will be attracted to the areas around the station.

New industries and business that will be attracted to the areas around the region.

Wealth, jobs and aspiration creates demand.

Protecting the environment is required.

 

The benefits for Sheffield are also much greater than to Manchester and Leeds-our competitors to whom we are currently massively loosing out to.

 

Bet you've got a bit of dough riding on it?

[ECCOnoob]

Well just upgrade the current rail service...or even better, re-nationalise it so it operates for the country rather than short term private franchises, who, when fail, have to be bailed out by the public. Which does a bloody good job #Eastcoastmainline

 

HS2 is a grandiose scheme which will provide minimum benefits at maximum disruption and cost.

 

Another one who can predict the future.

So you can tell me here and now that the rail users of 2033 will agree that its all minimum benefits. Magic you are.

 

You are not getting it.

 

Its not just a case of upgrading the existing network. The existing network is absolutely full to bursting. Filled with rolling stock which in turn is filled with too many passengers.

 

NEW lines are what's needed. HS2 will create dedicated space and running lines which will allow the desperately needed top speed services.

 

You cannot have trains that run at 80mph and trains that run at over 180mph on the same parts of the network. Eventually something has to give. Places like Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Kings Cross have massive congestion with trains struggling to get in on the filled platforms.

 

As a regular rail user I have lost count the amount of times that a so called Intercity express train trundles up to Leeds stuck behind a late running commuter service. The times I have been sat waiting outside Kings Cross because there is no platform free.

 

This is only going to get worse unless something is done about it. Upgrading what is already in place is simply not good enough.

 

I have said before, sometimes the whines of a few affected people have to be ignored for the greater good. I bet that the Motorways, dual carriageways, tram networks, tunnels and bridges that we all take for granted now had the same fuss and hullabaloo BUT they were an investment for the future and were quite rightly built.

 

If every NIMBY was taken seriously nothing would have ever got done.

Edited June 3, 2015 by ECCOnoob

[Mister M]

Another one who can predict the future.

So you can tell me here and now that the rail users of 2033 will agree that its all minimum benefits. Magic you are.

 

You are not getting it.

 

Its not just a case of upgrading the existing network. The existing network is absolutely full to bursting. Filled with rolling stock which in turn is filled with too many passengers.

 

NEW lines are what's needed. HS2 will create dedicated space and running lines which will allow the desperately needed top speed services.

 

You cannot have trains that run at 80mph and trains that run at over 180mph on the same parts of the network. Eventually something has to give. Places like Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Kings Cross have massive congestion with trains struggling to get in on the filled platforms.

 

As a regular rail user I have lost count the amount of times that a so called Intercity express train trundles up to Leeds stuck behind a late running commuter service. The times I have been sat waiting outside Kings Cross because there is no platform free.

 

This is only going to get worse unless something is done about it. Upgrading what is already in place is simply not good enough.

 

I have said before, sometimes the whines of a few affected people have to be ignored for the greater good. I bet that the Motorways, dual carriageways, tram networks, tunnels and bridges that we all take for granted now had the same fuss and hullabaloo BUT they were an investment for the future and were quite rightly built.

 

If every NIMBY was taken seriously nothing would have ever got done.

 

Many of the whiners and NIMBYs are in the Tory shires, and their MPs are not happy!

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 07:03 ----------

 

Ah a nimby - that's a reason? Sod everyone else as long as I'm fine?

 

Sounds like a Tory to me :hihi:

[RonJeremy]

Many of the whiners and NIMBYs are in the Tory shires, and their MPs are not happy!

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 07:03 ----------

 

 

Sounds like a Tory to me :hihi:

 

No. I'm fairly confident that Bozo is not a Tory. Have you read any of his past posts?

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 07:11 ----------

 

Another one who can predict the future.

So you can tell me here and now that the rail users of 2033 will agree that its all minimum benefits. Magic you are.

 

You are not getting it.

 

Its not just a case of upgrading the existing network. The existing network is absolutely full to bursting. Filled with rolling stock which in turn is filled with too many passengers.

 

NEW lines are what's needed. HS2 will create dedicated space and running lines which will allow the desperately needed top speed services.

 

You cannot have trains that run at 80mph and trains that run at over 180mph on the same parts of the network. Eventually something has to give. Places like Manchester Piccadilly, Leeds and Kings Cross have massive congestion with trains struggling to get in on the filled platforms.

 

As a regular rail user I have lost count the amount of times that a so called Intercity express train trundles up to Leeds stuck behind a late running commuter service. The times I have been sat waiting outside Kings Cross because there is no platform free.

 

This is only going to get worse unless something is done about it. Upgrading what is already in place is simply not good enough.

 

I have said before, sometimes the whines of a few affected people have to be ignored for the greater good. I bet that the Motorways, dual carriageways, tram networks, tunnels and bridges that we all take for granted now had the same fuss and hullabaloo BUT they were an investment for the future and were quite rightly built.

 

If every NIMBY was taken seriously nothing would have ever got done.

 

It's not often I change my mind on a subject but this is a very well presented argument explaining why HS2 is necessary for the future of the country and particularly for keeping the north in touch with the South.

[TheRocketMan]

The people who say it costs to much will be the same people who will protest and try and take court action, delaying the project and pushing it over budget.

 

HS2 is happening so come to terms with it. You can show your disapproval by not using it once its built.

[sgtkate]

No. I'm fairly confident that Bozo is not a Tory. Have you read any of his past posts?

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 07:11 ----------

 

 

It's not often I change my mind on a subject but this is a very well presented argument explaining why HS2 is necessary for the future of the country and particularly for keeping the north in touch with the South.

 

I was discussing this with my dad a few months ago, he's of that generation that he's more interested in trains than would be considered healthy. He had much the same opinion that HS2 was really only adding a tiny extra cost on top of what we'd need to spend regardless to upgrade and update our existing rail network to meet demand and to stop it completely collapsing. His view was if we could spend just a bit more and get faster, more efficient and more reliable trains then that extra cost would be paid for in a number of years anyway.

 

He also cited the electrification of the Bristol -> London line and the cost vs benefits of that. Ironically no one is complaining about billions being spent there because for some reason it's not a political hot potato, yet the logic is very much the same as HS2.

[Bonzo77]

I was discussing this with my dad a few months ago, he's of that generation that he's more interested in trains than would be considered healthy. He had much the same opinion that HS2 was really only adding a tiny extra cost on top of what we'd need to spend regardless to upgrade and update our existing rail network to meet demand and to stop it completely collapsing. His view was if we could spend just a bit more and get faster, more efficient and more reliable trains then that extra cost would be paid for in a number of years anyway.

 

He also cited the electrification of the Bristol -> London line and the cost vs benefits of that. Ironically no one is complaining about billions being spent there because for some reason it's not a political hot potato, yet the logic is very much the same as HS2.

 

It would save a large proportion of the countryside, including homes, historical sites, listed buildings and countryside attractions, such as fisheries etc.

[Annie Bynnol]

It would save a large proportion of the countryside, including homes, historical sites, listed buildings and countryside attractions, such as fisheries etc.

 

What does "large proportion of the countyside" actually mean?

 

Inaccurate ,alarmist and emotive comments do not help arguments. To support your argument you might want to read this for a start.

High Speed Rail: Consultation on the route from the

West Midlands to Manchester, Leeds and beyond

Sustainability Statement

Appendix E2 – Built Heritage

[willman]

Is there really a time benefit when you need to get from or to meadowhall on another train / tram? Before traveling? Isn't it going to be easier to get the normal train?

 

It would - but the prediction is by the time its built normal trains will be over capacity.

[loraward]

It would save a large proportion of the countryside, including homes, historical sites, listed buildings and countryside attractions, such as fisheries etc.

But the realty is that the population is growing and a larger population needs more infrastructure, loosing some of the countryside is the price for increasing the population.