L00b Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Can't we just get the French to extend their TGV network?And that differs from HS2 (or the like)...how? The TGV network in France is bespoke, designed for sustaining high speeds on most of its length. Most of the lines were built anew just like the HS2 proposal. So which small airport around Sheffield would you expand?If you live south/south east of Sheffield, Gamston is ace. As is Retford station for London trains. Gamston to Biggin Hill takes about 30-35 mins on a small (private) jet, walking on to walking off. Retford-London trains are usually around 45 mins faster than Sheffield-London. Edited June 1, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 But the distances travelled are far greater in the states. You aren't going to get a plane from London to birmingham twice a day. And what's the cost going to be on air travel in 2025? Nonsense, the vast majority are very short haul and cheap. US air space is chocker and they don't have them falling out of the skies. What's the cost of train travel going to be in 2025? Also by the time you'd checked in at Birmingham, gone through security, landed at Heathrow, disembarked and then made your way to central London, a train journey would probably have been quicker. Not if the system is improved upon. Will HS2 not require security checks of its tracks every day before departure as well as check-in? If your flight costs more to fly from Sheffield to Edinburgh than it would to fly from Man to Chicago on budget then obviously it wouldn't work. The Americans don't seem to have 'Travel culture' issues like the Brits, internally, they treat it as they would a taxi almost. It's an alternative proposal looking at internal flying culture, not something set in stone, as is HS2, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 And that differs from HS2 (or the like)...how? The TGV network in France is bespoke, designed for sustaining high speeds on most of its length. Most of the lines were built anew just like the HS2 proposal. If you live south/south east of Sheffield, Gamston is ace. As is Retford station for London trains. Gamston to Biggin Hill takes about 30-35 mins on a small (private) jet, walking on to walking off. Retford-London trains are usually around 45 mins faster than Sheffield-London. How many private jets would be needed to equal the capacity of one HS2 train? That's what Cassity was proposing..internal flights instead of HS2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The TGV network in France is bespoke, TGV also use a different gauge I believe, but ready to be corrected on that. It would be a case of changing the track or swapping the buggies. All time consuming. ---------- Post added 01-06-2015 at 12:40 ---------- How many private jets would be needed to equal the capacity of one HS2 train? That's what Cassity was proposing..internal flights instead of HS2 Tell me, how many times would you use HS2? And if you did how much time in advance would you plan it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) How many private jets would be needed to equal the capacity of one HS2 train?Depends how many seats in the jet (usually 10 to 12) and how fast an average turnaround between landings, I suppose Going rate for a serviceable 10-12 seater with low hours is somewhere between £13m and £15m (basic small stuff e.g. Cessna Citations, not high-end Lears or Dassaults). So £30bn (since you're saving the land purchases, earthworks and hardware (fixed and rolling stock) of the rail network) buys you about 2,000 of them at £15m a pop, for a total 'rolling' seating capacity of 20,000 to 24,000. Would that be enough, you think? All joke aside now, 'all-air' is just not a sustainable model at the scale of the UK. The kind of flea hops involved just can't be made economical to the level of an economy-rate train seat. Even on HS2. A small jet costs a minimum of a grand and a bit an hour just to operate (basic o/heads: pilot wage, fuel, small provision for maintenance, landing fees), that's why most private jets are actually leased/used/subbed by their owners as high end air taxis for paying others. By comparison to the US, it's the distances involved that make internal US air travel economical: the longer (and the longer at cruising speed), the cheaper per mile travelled. Edited June 1, 2015 by L00b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cid Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 We are in debt, can we afford HS2? Debt is still increasing, even under the Tories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Tell me, how many times would you use HS2? And if you did how much time in advance would you plan it? No idea as it hasn't happened yet.... could you let us know where all these extra planes are going to get airspace around London... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Nonsense, the vast majority are very short haul and cheap. US air space is chocker and they don't have them falling out of the skies. What's the cost of train travel going to be in 2025? Not if the system is improved upon. Will HS2 not require security checks of its tracks every day before departure as well as check-in? If your flight costs more to fly from Sheffield to Edinburgh than it would to fly from Man to Chicago on budget then obviously it wouldn't work. The Americans don't seem to have 'Travel culture' issues like the Brits, internally, they treat it as they would a taxi almost. It's an alternative proposal looking at internal flying culture, not something set in stone, as is HS2, apparently. As short as london to birmingham? I'd love to see a bit of evidence to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 The data speaks for its self though "charmer". The more the cost estimates increase, the less support the project gets! Do you think the table has turned over the last 18 months? The bigger drop was not down to cost, but due to time. In fact, support went slightly up when the estimated cost went up form 32 to 42 billion. So yes, the passage of time evidently impacts the support for HS2. You can clearly see it in the link you sent. Have you got any more out of date data we can discuss please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin6 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 OMG! Everyone would have said no to electricity pylons had the government consulted the public and then what? £20bn is currently being spent on a new underground for London, don't hear anyone moaning about that! What a set of whining lefty nimby's Certain countries once described as 3rd world are moving ahead of us OMG again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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