What's happening to money?

[sgtkate]

I think the pharmaceutical industry should be a none profit industry.

 

So you think it should be a charity? Because that's kinda what a non-profit making industry is. You seem to be missing the CRUCIAL point, that profit making or not it costs billions of pounds to produce a drug. So any company, charity or government organisation is at MINUS several billion even before the drug has been 'launched'. That surely needs to be recouped doesn't it? As I showed with the figures above, if we simply wrote that money off as a loss we'd have to find more than the entire NHS budget to do so.

[Bonzo77]

Economics 101: no profit to be made = no innovation drive.

 

So there's no innovative non profit organisations?

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 16:18 ----------

 

So you think it should be a charity? Because that's kinda what a non-profit making industry is. You seem to be missing the CRUCIAL point, that profit making or not it costs billions of pounds to produce a drug. So any company, charity or government organisation is at MINUS several billion even before the drug has been 'launched'. That surely needs to be recouped doesn't it? As I showed with the figures above, if we simply wrote that money off as a loss we'd have to find more than the entire NHS budget to do so.

 

Where could we find billions for extra funding? I wonder?

[Anna B]

What if that is the correct price for the drug? What if that is actually how much the compound has cost to develop and market etc? Are you saying that these new drugs shouldn't be researched and produced?

 

Yes they should be researched and developed, but how do we know if it is the correct price for the drug? They simply tell us the price and we pay it.

I think the pharmaceutical companies see the NHS as a cash cow.

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 18:25 ----------

 

Another case on tonight's 6 0' clock news. A gorgeous little boy whose treatment will cost £395,000 has been turned down.

 

Doesn't seem fair. And how long before more common illnesses cannot afford to be treated?

[Obelix]

Yes they should be researched and developed, but how do we know if it is the correct price for the drug? They simply tell us the price and we pay it.

 

No we don't "just pay" as you indicated later on in this very post!

 

I think the pharmaceutical companies see the NHS as a cash cow.

 

And your evidence for this would be?

Another case on tonight's 6 0' clock news. A gorgeous little boy whose treatment will cost £395,000 has been turned down.

 

Appeal to sympathy is a common logical fallacy. It matters not how adorable the boy is - would an old man be less deserving?

 

But it's clear that the NHS cash cow hasnt been milked, and it hasn't "just paid"

 

Doesn't seem fair.

 

Life frequently isn't. The NHS is set up to deliver the greatest good to the greatest numbers at a reasonable cost. It doesnt have an unlimited budget and never will.

[L00b]

So there's no innovative non profit organisations?

I talked about innovation drive.

 

Profit is an essential motivator for innovation, but -and of course- it's not the only motivator.

 

Do you understand the concept?

 

Very different from saying 'no profit to be made = no innovation'.

 

Turning to your question for a bit: none that can sustain themselves.

 

No, not even Universities: if it weren't for private (occasionally helped by public, mostly EU-) sponsoring, little to no real research would get done.

 

Plenty of highly innovative start-ups cashed up by VCs and other HNW people, that never make a penny of profit. But it's the same modus operandi for these as for the 1-in-10 investment-returning/profitable new drugs: throw cash at several innovating start-ups, in the expectation that one will eventually pay off big time.

 

In 15 years of work with tech start-ups, I've yet to hear about a non-profit tech start-up securing any form of equity or even seed funding.

[Bonzo77]

I talked about innovation drive.

 

Profit is an essential motivator for innovation, but -and of course- it's not the only motivator.

 

Do you understand the concept?

 

Very different from saying 'no profit to be made = no innovation'.

 

Turning to your question for a bit: none that can sustain themselves.

 

No, not even Universities: if it weren't for private (occasionally helped by public, mostly EU-) sponsoring, little to no real research would get done.

 

Plenty of highly innovative start-ups cashed up by VCs and other HNW people, that never make a penny of profit. But it's the same modus operandi for these as for the 1-in-10 investment-returning/profitable new drugs: throw cash at several innovating start-ups, in the expectation that one will eventually pay off big time.

 

In 15 years of work with tech start-ups, I've yet to hear about a non-profit tech start-up securing any form of equity or even seed funding.

 

There's plenty of passionate people out there who run none profit industries. Some people actually enjoy helping others. None profit doesn't mean working for free.

[L00b]

There's plenty of passionate people out there who run none profit industries. Some people actually enjoy helping others. None profit doesn't mean working for free.

Have I said or suggested any different?

 

Show me examples of some non-profit industries with a culture of innovation and a track record of technical developments to match, please.

 

I won't be holding my breath.

Edited June 5, 2015 by L00b

[sgtkate]

So there's no innovative non profit organisations?

 

---------- Post added 04-06-2015 at 16:18 ----------

 

 

Where could we find billions for extra funding? I wonder?

 

Seriously I agree with the ideology, but you are living on a different planet. We could collect all outstanding tax, stop demonising people on low incomes and benefits, start targeting those who simply get rich by manipulation of figures but if we've not done that in the last 100 years I can't see it happening anytime in the next 100.

[Cyclone]

There's plenty of passionate people out there who run none profit industries. Some people actually enjoy helping others. None profit doesn't mean working for free.

 

What they don't do though is get billions invested from shareholders.

 

---------- Post added 05-06-2015 at 10:22 ----------

 

Yes they should be researched and developed, but how do we know if it is the correct price for the drug? They simply tell us the price and we pay it.

You've actually no idea how the pricing works have you. Have you even heard of NICE?

I think the pharmaceutical companies see the NHS as a cash cow.

Perhaps do some investigation to support your thoughts.

Doesn't seem fair. And how long before more common illnesses cannot afford to be treated?

 

Doesn't seem fair because you don't understand it. And never.

[Bonzo77]

Seriously I agree with the ideology, but you are living on a different planet. We could collect all outstanding tax, stop demonising people on low incomes and benefits, start targeting those who simply get rich by manipulation of figures but if we've not done that in the last 100 years I can't see it happening anytime in the next 100.

 

I'm not living on another planet. I'm on the same rock as everyone else. And you know what? I bet everything I own that if you were to ask every person on this rock if they'd like to see the above happen, the overwhelming majority would say yes.