Pathological demand avoidance.

[El Cid]

This subject interests me, anyone else?

 

I have been watching Born Naughty on Channel Four; to me it just seems like learned behaviour due to the lack of a strong authority figure.

But it seems that is is being classed as part of autism, I dont agree.

But I am just an ordinary man in the street, what do I know.

 

Pathological demand avoidance (PDA), or Newson's Syndrome, is a subtype of autism characterized by an avoidance of the ordinary demands of life. It is identified as a syndrome through the clinical work of UK child psychologist Elizabeth Newson. Newson proposed it to be a specific pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) within the PDD "family" which is now loosely termed the autism spectrum.

 

PDA is increasingly being recognized as a distinct sub-type of autism that responds to different treatment and handling guidelines than other conditions on the Autistic Spectrum. In common with Aspergers Syndrome and PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified), Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is not individually named in the current bible of psychiatric diagnosis DSM-5. but is included within the diagnosis of 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. Clinicians are increasingly prepared to diagnose children (and some adults) with PDA when this profile fits the patients most accurately. In the United Kingdom there are recognized resources of information that can be followed in order to help integrate PDA children into the school system such as 'The Distinctive Clinical and Educational Needs of Children with Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome: Guidelines for good practice' by Phil Christie. PDA has gained such a degree of recognition and diagnostic acceptance from the clinical community that the National Autistic Society (a UK autism charity) have produced a leaflet entitled 'What is PDA?' after recognising the disorder in 2008.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_demand_avoidance

[cassity]

This subject interests me, anyone else?

 

I have been watching Born Naughty on Channel Four; to me it just seems like learned behaviour due to the lack of a strong authority figure.

But it seems that is is being classed as part of autism, I dont agree.

But I am just an ordinary man in the street, what do I know.

 

Pathological demand avoidance (PDA), or Newson's Syndrome, is a subtype of autism characterized by an avoidance of the ordinary demands of life. It is identified as a syndrome through the clinical work of UK child psychologist Elizabeth Newson. Newson proposed it to be a specific pervasive developmental disorder (PDD) within the PDD "family" which is now loosely termed the autism spectrum.

 

PDA is increasingly being recognized as a distinct sub-type of autism that responds to different treatment and handling guidelines than other conditions on the Autistic Spectrum. In common with Aspergers Syndrome and PDD-NOS (Pervasive Developmental Disorder Not Otherwise Specified), Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is not individually named in the current bible of psychiatric diagnosis DSM-5. but is included within the diagnosis of 'Autism Spectrum Disorder'. Clinicians are increasingly prepared to diagnose children (and some adults) with PDA when this profile fits the patients most accurately. In the United Kingdom there are recognized resources of information that can be followed in order to help integrate PDA children into the school system such as 'The Distinctive Clinical and Educational Needs of Children with Pathological Demand Avoidance Syndrome: Guidelines for good practice' by Phil Christie. PDA has gained such a degree of recognition and diagnostic acceptance from the clinical community that the National Autistic Society (a UK autism charity) have produced a leaflet entitled 'What is PDA?' after recognising the disorder in 2008.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_demand_avoidance

 

You may be correct in your assumption, but what leads you to disagree?

[El Cid]

You may be correct in your assumption, but what leads you to disagree?

 

I work transporting children with special needs, a bright young lad that is classed as autistic(high level aspergers) on the school transport, is very similar to my daughter, who is bright and mis-behaves - at a main stream school.

 

Dont most children?

 

And this is how I see the kids on the TV show, born naughty; I see the parents and there is no single person with a back bone.

My own daughter was brought up by her mother, who has mental health issues.

[cassity]

I work transporting children with special needs, a bright young lad that is classed as autistic(high level aspergers) on the school transport, is very similar to my daughter, who is bright and mis-behaves - at a main stream school.

 

Dont most children?

 

And this is how I see the kids on the TV show, born naughty; I see the parents and there is no single person with a back bone.

My own daughter was brought up by her mother, who has mental health issues.

 

I'm not sure a taxi driver qualifies as a clinical UK child psychologist, you're just making unqualified observation probably based on a bias. Many children with Asperger's show similar characteristics as those without..even Asperger children are children. It's the complexities of individual behavior that's critical. Because a normal child can show a similar characteristic to that of an autistic doesn't mean the autism is any less simply because the characteristic is defined as similar.

[El Cid]

Many children with Asperger's show similar characteristics as those without..even Asperger children are children. It's the complexities of individual behavior that's critical. Because a normal child can show a similar characteristic to that of an autistic doesn't mean the autism is any less simply because the characteristic is defined as similar.

 

Autism is a quirk of having a different brain, but behaviour is learned too, so a child can learn the behaviour associated with autism.

[cassity]

Autism is a quirk of having a different brain, but behaviour is learned too, so a child can learn the behaviour associated with autism.

 

Sorry, you lost me there. Are you saying autism is self taught?

[El Cid]

Sorry, you lost me there. Are you saying autism is self taught?

 

Autism spectrum disorder is a condition that affects social interaction; abnormal social interaction can be as a result of a change in the brain, or not learning to socialise in the normal way.

Some people prefer the company of animals to people, that does not mean that they are autistic.

[medusa]

One of the children in this week's show demonstrated perfectly a set of learned behaviour. He played with a family member who is autistic and so he showed a whole set of autistic-type behaviour. He isn't autistic, but he is a young child who learns through mimicking, and the only autistic markers he had were copied from the family member who is autistic. (This is why so many in depth assessments are important- children are mirrors to their world).

 

A true autistic brain functions in a way which is fundamentally different to the neurotypical brain, but you are unlikely to see the most challenging or atypical behaviour in a relatively short routine interaction, so what is your point?

[El Cid]

One of the children in this week's show demonstrated perfectly a set of learned behaviour. He played with a family member who is autistic and so he showed a whole set of autistic-type behaviour. He isn't autistic, but he is a young child who learns through mimicking, and the only autistic markers he had were copied from the family member who is autistic. (This is why so many in depth assessments are important- children are mirrors to their world).

 

A true autistic brain functions in a way which is fundamentally different to the neurotypical brain, but you are unlikely to see the most challenging or atypical behaviour in a relatively short routine interaction, so what is your point?

 

So you are saying that autism behaviour can be learned, but not the challenging type. But Asperger syndrome is a milder form of autism, and is only recently being diagnosed in large numbers.

A TV program is not an ideal example, because they can portray either side of the hypothesis. The examples on the TV program Born Naughty, all lacked a good strong father figure. Is this a sign of the times, or a causal factor?

[medusa]

So you are saying that autism behaviour can be learned, but not the challenging type. But Asperger syndrome is a milder form of autism, and is only recently being diagnosed in large numbers.

A TV program is not an ideal example, because they can portray either side of the hypothesis. The examples on the TV program Born Naughty, all lacked a good strong father figure. Is this a sign of the times, or a causal factor?

 

What I'm saying is that a small child will reflect whatever behaviours they are around as they are growing, so one child on the programme did display some autistic behaviours, but they were the identical ones displayed by the autistic relative with whom he plays regularly, and these things which could be taken as 'worrying signs' are interspersed with completely different behaviours at other times. Clearly someone who has autism doesn't stop being autistic sometimes and engage with others like this little boy did- which demonstrates his learning ability (from copying) not true autism.

 

I have no doubt that on a programme where a family has 3 or 4 children and only one of these has serious behavioural issues, then it is helpful to all if those issues can be addressed, but there are 2 children shown in each hour of programme and the assessments (of which only tiny parts are shown) will have taken a huge amount of time compared to what we are shown.

 

This means that nobody should be taking the behaviours on show as the be all and end all of whether the child has a developmental delay, if only because you simply can't see enough in one short programme.