Harrystottle Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Correct, although it isn't by design, it is because as a national politician it is far easier to blame the EU than have to explain WHY you are introducing unpopular measures. True. They do hide behind the "EU uman rites" stuff. British politicians love to be able to get someone between them and the blame. It's part of the reason why they national politicians love Quangos. Give the responsibility of carrying out public duties to a Quango and then blame them if things go wrong. Think of the Somerset floods and the Environment Agency the other year. At a local level councils give away their responsibilities on council housing to "arms length" bodies like Wakefield District Housing and then say Council housing is nothing to do with them any more. ---------- Post added 08-06-2015 at 20:32 ---------- I always thought that the peace in Europe came from the presence of NATO, which includes a good many Americans and Canadians, with the UK the largest European Military force in the Organization. To be fair to Tzijlstra, he has said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Ah, so you are suggesting that your average fellow Brit is incapable of, or unwilling to, self-improve their factual knowledge about the EU. That's very mean to your fellow Brits, Harry Personally, I hold Brits in much higher esteem, proven precisely by the fact that the vast majority in current polls and debates intends to vote for 'in': clearly, that majority knows a few facts about the EU. And maybe some you don't know yourself Which proves they don't have all the facts and are willing to except many of the lies. ---------- Post added 08-06-2015 at 20:43 ---------- I always thought that the peace in Europe came from the presence of NATO, which includes a good many Americans and Canadians, with the UK the largest European Military force in the Organization. EU supporters like to invent reasons to justify the EU. Edited June 8, 2015 by loraward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Which proves they don't have all the facts and are willing to except many of the lies. ---------- Post added 08-06-2015 at 20:43 ---------- EU supporters like to invent reasons to justify the EU. We do have all the facts, both pro and anti, it's just that there are so many of them. Plus, both camps are likely to invent reasons for staying in and leaving. I know people of different political hues whose jobs entail dealing with Europe and there is no consensus on whether to stay or go. All the facts people need to make up their minds are out there in the public domain so, if you're serious about wanting to know which way to vote, research the facts not the opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigthumb Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 We do have all the facts, both pro and anti, it's just that there are so many of them. I hadn't realised that. So what concessions did the EU decide upon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annbaker Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Two possibilities. They was in a coalition government so didn't have enough power to do anything different. They believe in high levels of immigration presumably because they benefit from it. But they don't have me looking at just the EU, immigration from outside the EU also needs to fall significantly. They probably cut border agency budget because with the current high pay scales in the public sector it's cheaper to have people unemployed than working. High pay scales in the public sector? As one who works in it I'd love to know what this is based on because the words high and pay do not go together for the vast majority of public sector workers many of whom have to claim tax credits to survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFrank Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Think some Tories will be quitting the party fairly soon......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 High pay scales in the public sector? As one who works in it I'd love to know what this is based on because the words high and pay do not go together for the vast majority of public sector workers many of whom have to claim tax credits to survive. Junior staff salary and structure information from the UK Border Agency - September 2012. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203118/UKBA-junior-staff-sept-2011.csv/preview Transparency data Senior staff salary and structure information from the UK Border Agency - September 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203117/ukba-senior-staff-sep-2012.csv/preview For some reason they don't want us to know what the Senior staff are paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Which proves they don't have all the facts and are willing to except many of the lies.Does it? Pot. Kettle. Very dark colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loraward Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Does it? Yes..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annbaker Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Junior staff salary and structure information from the UK Border Agency - September 2012. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203118/UKBA-junior-staff-sept-2011.csv/preview Transparency data Senior staff salary and structure information from the UK Border Agency - September 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/203117/ukba-senior-staff-sep-2012.csv/preview For some reason they don't want us to know what the Senior staff are paid. Ah you clearly have NO idea at all how civil and public service pay works and senior staff's pay is published. It's in each Dept's annual report and accounts. You think we all get paid the same? Oh I wish! These are auditable and a matter of public record and available online. Hilarious! Just had a look to see what they get paid compared to us. They get more but no suprises there for me Edited June 8, 2015 by annbaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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