If UK leaves Europe … a warning??

[annbaker]

Something that clearly shows there is no across the piece way of looking at civil service pay. Each Dept has it's own pay rules. Some have more senior managers and less foot soldiers and in others it's the opposite. Depends on what they are there to do

 

http://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/9295/the-shape-of-the-civil-service-remaking-the-grade/

 

In terms of pay scales . Senior Civil Servants first. Their individual pay is in their requsite Depts Annual Report and Accounts but the attached gives an idea of what an SCS will earn. However to note these usually are conditional on whether they achive their agreed objectives or not.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/283334/6178-Job_title__grade_and_salary.pdf

 

Now in terms of us normal mortals it varies between Dept to Dept and there are an be wide differences between grades. So what I get paid where I am I could get more in another Dept but equally ( less likely) I could get less

 

Best way to check the going rate and what the job entails to compare is on Civil Service Jobs (totally open to anyone to go look)

 

Using the lowest grades where the starting salary could be as little as £13k (see link) where is this so called 'high' salary. £13k a year isn't high!

 

https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/civilserviceadministrativeofficer.aspx

[I1L2T3]

With respect Ann, Loraward had provided 2 news links which states public sector wages are higher than private sector.

 

You claim you can get double your wage doing a similar job in the private sector. This begs the question...why aren't you doing it then?

 

To be fair the links contain warnings about the difficulties of comparing the two. In a way they support both loraward and ann's arguments. The BBC link points out that comparisons are difficult because private public sector workers are on average more highly qualified. The second link points to only a £1,000 gap for a lot of jobs and then has to tack on pensions to make the gap appear larger.

 

Which maybe partly answers your second question - people stay in public sector roles because long-term they offer a better deal. It's a bit like retirement planning.

Edited June 9, 2015 by I1L2T3

[annbaker]

I wish it were 'retirement planning'. Another myth is we get gold plated pensions. Oh I wish! I'm still there for personal reasons which don;t actually have anything to do with my pension.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:16 ----------

 

Why have I not moved to private sector - very personal family reasons and no other which prevent me from doing so. Having been successful at an application similar to the one I posted a link to and all set to make the move, family circumstances prevented sadly and until that changes, have to stay put.

[I1L2T3]

I wish it were 'retirement planning'. Another myth is we get gold plated pensions. Oh I wish! I'm still there for personal reasons which don;t actually have anything to do with my pension.

 

Fair enough ann. Everybody stays in for different reasons but for those hitting certain ages with a final salary pension under their belt they'd be mad to change jobs.

[annbaker]

Out of curiosity what do you think we get percentage wise of our salaries as a pension?

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:18 ----------

 

Fair enough ann. Everybody stays in for different reasons but for those hitting certain ages with a final salary pension under their belt they'd be mad to change jobs.

 

But you take it with you when you go. OK it won;t be as much as you won;t pay in til you leave but as they say 'every little helps'

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:19 ----------

 

And how much of our salary do you think we pay towards it?

[I1L2T3]

Out of curiosity what do you think we get percentage wise of our salaries as a pension?

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:18 ----------

 

 

But you take it with you when you go. OK it won;t be as much as you won;t pay in til you leave but as they say 'every little helps'

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:19 ----------

 

And how much of our salary do you think we pay towards it?

 

My wife works in the NHS in a medical role. I know what she is likely to get and it's pretty good. She could probably retire before 60. I work in the private sector and will have to go to 67 and even then I'll still get less than she does even with lots of extra years worked. Oh well. My choice.

 

Now if only all public sector pensions rewarded people appropriately. Like you say some are tiny, even with long service. The other side of all this of course is private employees neglect of their own pensions, and the neglect of pensions by many employers, employers who have not been held to account for their failure. The argument that public sector pensions should be cut to the same crap levels as those of private pensions really sticks in my craw. It's the politics of jealousy and indicates failure of people to take responsibility for themselves, to put into their own pension pots or to take their employers to task.

[tinfoilhat]

My wife works in the NHS in a medical role. I know what she is likely to get and it's pretty good. She could probably retire before 60. I work in the private sector and will have to go to 67 and even then I'll still get less than she does even with lots of extra years worked. Oh well. My choice.

 

Now if only all public sector pensions rewarded people appropriately. Like you say some are tiny, even with long service. The other side of all this of course is private employees neglect of their own pensions, and the neglect of pensions by many employers, employers who have not been held to account for their failure. The argument that public sector pensions should be cut to the same crap levels as those of private pensions really sticks in my craw. It's the politics of jealousy and indicates failure of people to take responsibility for themselves, to put into their own pension pots or to take their employers to task.

 

In the fullness of time our tiny business will have to set up a stake holder pension scheme. I am not a pension scheme expert. I could get advice from the likes of the fsb and if the scheme I've chosen, under advisement goes tits up, I'm liable apparently. "It won't come to that" they said. Really? REALLY?????

[annbaker]

Correct - Most don't get that much and I certainly couldn't retire on mine at 60 and I'm middle management grade. I have no choice but to pay for mine as it's deducted from my salary and I have no say in that whatsoever nor do I in the amount but let's just say it's one up by far more than our 1% per year pay rise year on year since 2009. Hence why I now earn less than I did then.

 

I agree private sector pensions where they exist are not always where they should be but I do object to what loraward was trying to imply that we get paid more than your average private sector worker cos we don't. If that was the case then why do a large majority in the bigger Departments depend on tax credits to make ends meet? If you;re on so called 'high' wages then these wouldn't be needed surely?

 

Are private sector workers better qualified? Can't answer that one. My gut feeling on experience is probably yes but I think would depend on the industry sector you work in.

[I1L2T3]

In the fullness of time our tiny business will have to set up a stake holder pension scheme. I am not a pension scheme expert. I could get advice from the likes of the fsb and if the scheme I've chosen, under advisement goes tits up, I'm liable apparently. "It won't come to that" they said. Really? REALLY?????

 

Unreal isn't it. The pension industry has spent the last 30 years trashing private pension funds and creaming off vast fees for itself, all with little accountability. Your experience suggests nothing is going to change at all.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:49 ----------

 

Correct - Most don't get that much and I certainly couldn't retire on mine at 60 and I'm middle management grade. I have no choice but to pay for mine as it's deducted from my salary and I have no say in that whatsoever nor do I in the amount but let's just say it's one up by far more than our 1% per year pay rise year on year since 2009. Hence why I now earn less than I did then.

 

I agree private sector pensions where they exist are not always where they should be but I do object to what loraward was trying to imply that we get paid more than your average private sector worker cos we don't. If that was the case then why do a large majority in the bigger Departments depend on tax credits to make ends meet? If you;re on so called 'high' wages then these wouldn't be needed surely?

 

Are private sector workers better qualified? Can't answer that one. My gut feeling on experience is probably yes but I think would depend on the industry sector you work in.

 

Sorry got that wrong way round in earlier post - public sector workers are on average better qualified. Will fix it.

[tinfoilhat]

Unreal isn't it. The pension industry has spent the last 30 years trashing private pension funds and creaming off vast fees for itself, all with little accountability. Your experience suggests nothing is going to change at all.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 22:49 ----------

 

.

 

Agreed which why those who could bought houses to let out instead of relying on a suspect and unreliable pension scheme.