The new EU policy

[geared]

Did they offer e referendum?

 

I believe Millibrains words were:

 

"I will choose for you"

[JFKvsNixon]

My local MP got elected on being anti-EU, as did many Conservatives, but they always failed to say how they would vote. It seems that Cameron is now telling his MPs that they must vote to stay in; they do not know what concessions they will get, or at least they havnt told us yet.

 

It's an anonymous vote, so the MP can vote either way.

[L00b]

Before the election we had pro EU parties having the policy of renegotiate, but stay in; it now seems that the Conservative have that policy too. Very disingenuous. Or have I got that wrong?

You've got that wrong.

 

Cameron set about renegotiating and staying in since he got in 2010. I suggest you look at the dates of these few posts (by way of example, but feel free to use your Google Fu):

Without delving much/more broadly in this yet, off-cuff I'd say:

• She works well with Cameron, and
  
• Cameron is now surer to get his way with the UK's renegotiated position on the run-up to the EU referendum.

So, a cautious 'yes' from me, for now

<...>

 

I'm as Europhile as they come, French and only here in the UK/Sheffield because EU mechanisms facilitated that to such an extent, but make no mistake - until we have a clear indication of what was actually on the table during that meeting, which Cameron eventually turned down, for all I know and care Cameron did absolutely the right thing for UK plc, and all aboard that ship.

<...>

And I can also see a short-term benefit as well, which I'm surprised political/economical commentators haven't made more noise about: when the transaction tax will get rolled out in the 17 EZ countries as a result of their go-ahead, expectedly very soon, the UK financial sector will see an immediate surge (then a sustained level-) of capital repatriation/transit, wiping out Paris and Frankfurt's sustained attempts to eat away at the City's market share. That means more tax to the UK coffers, and expectedly little to no gain achieved by this Tobin tax.

 

IMHO, that's one of the main reasons why Sarkozy and Merkel were so hacked off at Cameron. They cut their nose to spite their face, and they know it, and they know that Cameron knows it too But rather than see it as a 'betrayal' (of the EU) or some such other nonsense, I simply see it as playing a national competitive advantage at the right time, in the right circumstances. That it doubles as foiling Germany's (very-) long-term plan to own and run the EU is just the cherry on the cake

That's not in contention.

 

Hollande doesn't want it to happen for a whole variety of reasons, none of which have the UK's best interests at heart (regardless of whether the UK staus in or not).

 

Merkel is a pragmatist and was the first to signal, very early, that she'll at least sit at the table and hear Cameron out. Hollande, only freshly-promoted from kindergarten politics, could do worse than take a leaf from her book

[El Cid]

You've got that wrong.

 

Cameron set about renegotiating and staying in since he got in 2010.

 

Renegotiate what, we do not know; free movement of people?

[L00b]

Renegotiate what, we do not know

See below. We don't have the minute detail, but plenty enough to sink debating teeth into.

free movement of people?

That was never going to be renegotiable. And I don't believe Cameron has ever suggested or claimed that it could.

 

What is renegotiable, however, is all the supranational statutory strings attaching to conditions of access to social cover, health cover, subsidised housing, benefits, etc. that makes free movement more or less viable as a personal venture for economical migrants.

 

There's a lot of EU legislation about that, which sits below such fundamental treaty matters as free movement of people and capital intra-EU, and ripe for surgery: you can perfectly well maintain free movement of people, but remove as much of the social and health cover as renegotiations will let you get away with, turning the UK into 'too expensive' an EU destination for low-skilled economic migrants to come and have a go.

 

Which is the intention, I believe.

 

Naturally, I don't expect Brits to come on here moaning when they get the flameback during their Spanish or French holidays or retirement (through reciprocated limits to access to social cover, health cover, subsidised housing, benefits, etc). Fair is fair

 

belated EDIT: you've actually got that doubly wrong. Before the election, the LibDems were pro-Europe and anti-renegotiation (recall Clegg's outburst when Cameron slammed the Tobin tax EU initiative, you can link to the thread from the above quotes), and Labour stayed pro-Europe and anti-renegotiation longer than them. The LibDems and Labour only very belatedly toed Cameron's line after the Tories cleaned up at the GE. UKIP is UKIP, less said about that the better, and the Greens and the SNP are the last of the die-hard pro-EU-leave-it-as-it-is.

Edited June 8, 2015 by L00b
typos and further point

[tinfoilhat]

If you want an EU related giggle go and read the comments on the bbc website about Cameron advising/threatening ministers they'll be out of a job if they campaign for "out". Choose to read them by most popular for the full foamy mouthed effect.

[El Cid]

the LibDems were pro-Europe and anti-renegotiation

 

Liberal Democrat - "Reform the EU to cut waste, protect the UK’s influence in the Single Market and strengthen the role of the Westminster Parliament in scrutinising EU legislation".

[L00b]

Liberal Democrat - "Reform the EU to cut waste, protect the UK’s influence in the Single Market and strengthen the role of the Westminster Parliament in scrutinising EU legislation".

Did you happen to accidentally leave the source and date out of your post?

 

In the meantime, I'll just leave this here for you. October 2014.

[El Cid]

Did you happen to accidentally leave the source and date out of your post?

 

In the meantime, I'll just leave this here for you. October 2014.

 

I was assume that you would take posts as facts, dont you trust me

 

It is from the Liberal Democrat manifesto.

 

http://www.libdems.org.uk/european_election_manifesto_2014

 

The 2014 EU one, I wonder what the 2015 manifesto says

[L00b]

I was assume that you would take posts as facts, dont you trust me

I only ever take anyone's posts as facts when they are supported by evidence.

 

Nowt to do with you in particular, so apologies if your ego takes a knock

It is from the Liberal Democrat manifesto.

 

http://www.libdems.org.uk/european_election_manifesto_2014

 

The 2014 EU one, I wonder what the 2015 manifesto says

That would be the one they got out after about 4 years of Coalition during which they steadfastly opposed Cameron about EU reform, and after UKIP's rethoric got to the lot of them.

 

Your turn now: let's have some evidence of LibDem support for renegotiation with the EU and pro-referendum, pre-2010. In fact, make that pre-2013.