The new EU policy

[L00b]

The flaw in that argument is that many of the people opposed to EU membership and immigration do understand macro and micro economics, do understand the benefits of immigration, but they also understand the negative consequences of EU membership and immigration, and are of the opinion that the negative out ways the posative.

You keep telling yourself all that loraward. In the meantime, I've yet to see anything posted by you apt to validate your opinion over mine.

What does a growing economy do for you?

 

It does not make YOU richer or happier; its just the size of the economy

A growing economy means tax receipts, and wealth in the system however unequally it may be distributed.

 

Relative to non-growing economies (which is just about all of the EU and a fair few besides), it means a lesser need to hack and slash Gvt budgets and/or raise taxes, some capacity for structural maintenance and investment and more. All of which ultimately impacts everyone.

 

As a working taxpayer, I'm quite glad I don't live in Ireland, Greece or France, 'ta much. In that respect at least, the UK's growing economy does make me richer and happier. And that's before I've looked at increasing workload and profits relative to those of the foreign competition in the past 3 years.

it does not affect our poor productivity levels.

 

A growing economy without more houses and infrastructure does put peoples noses out

These are valid points. And I'd like to think they're on the way, now that the economy is running off stabilisers. Time will tell.

How are we doing on the happiness index, David Cameron brought that in, in the last Parliament.

Not a clue, not a care.

 

We're not in the walk-or-die US, we're not in dead-cat-bouncing Continental Europe, we're not in war-torn Middle East or Africa, we're not in sweatshop Asia.

 

If people ain't happy being here and making the most of opportunities around (of which there are tons), what hope for them?

Edited June 9, 2015 by L00b

[El Cid]

No I'd say our working class is better off as well.

 

I beg to differ.

[JFKvsNixon]

I beg to differ.

 

I remember growing up in the 1980s.

 

Around half the families on my street had a car, there was only one TV per household and only a few households had a video. Everybody would go around to someones house to watch a video.

 

Only a few households had a phone, sweets/snacks/fizzy pop was treat for special occasions. No one went away for a holiday, home or abroad. No one had central heating/double glazing. People could only afford the hot water tank to be on for a short time each day, and if you ran out of hot water then tough, you had a cold bath.

 

I'd say that working class people are better off today.

[chalga]

But they dont do it.

 

A growing population needs more houses, roads, hospitals, it still does not improve peoples lives.

 

This is where immigrants do a useful job for Cameron,it's their fault for being here,not his fault for not building infrastructure.

[tinfoilhat]

I remember growing up in the 1980s.

 

Around half the families on my street had a car, there was only one TV per household and only a few households had a video. Everybody would go around to someones house to watch a video.

 

Only a few households had a phone, sweets/snacks/fizzy pop was treat for special occasions. No one went away for a holiday, home or abroad. No one had central heating/double glazing. People could only afford the hot water tank to be on for a short time each day, and if you ran out of hot water then tough, you had a cold bath.

 

I'd say that working class people are better off today.

 

But is that how judge how better off the working class are - access to fizzy drinks, TVs and cars? Many (more?less? I don't know) will live in rented accommodation that won't have secure tenure like social housing did back then, the kids are far more likely to be obese and a lot of people suffer from fuel poverty (is that the right term?) if you believe some of the posters on here. Are the mod cons distracting the working class from the bigger, less rosy picture or are we just worse at managing what we've got?

[JFKvsNixon]

But is that how judge how better off the working class are - access to fizzy drinks, TVs and cars? Many (more?less? I don't know) will live in rented accommodation that won't have secure tenure like social housing did back then, the kids are far more likely to be obese and a lot of people suffer from fuel poverty (is that the right term?) if you believe some of the posters on here. Are the mod cons distracting the working class from the bigger, less rosy picture or are we just worse at managing what we've got?

 

I was using the examples of how people have more disposable income nowadays compared to then. I remember being on a 50p electricity meter for years, and as I said when you ran out of hot water, then it was tough, you had a cold bath.

[L00b]

But is that how judge how better off the working class are

Notwithstanding that the definition has changed fairly fundamentally since 1980, how else?

 

Lest we forget, the measure posited was 'standard of living', and disposable income and mod cons are part and parcel of it, as are essentials (roof, food, hygiene) which, them, haven't changed to this day since before 1980.

 

Food and hygiene have improved many times-fold since that time, so much in quality as in accessibility, as has housing.

Are the mod cons distracting the working class from the bigger, less rosy picture or are we just worse at managing what we've got?

In that context, is the picture 'less rosy' or just 'different'?

 

I'd say the growth of the life-on-credit culture has been the biggest development for the 'working class' since the 80s. That's a gutfeel, mind, I don't have any hard data about it. You won't find many EU migrants subscribing to it, for socio-cultural reasons.

[El Cid]

 

I'd say that working class people are better off today.

 

Nothing to do with having an open door immigration policy, advances in tech and medicine more likely.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

I hear reports of how good it is/was living in the North, more socialist, fewer people perhaps, but that could be another thread.

Why are people in the North more friendly, is it because they are happier, perhaps it is an happier life.

[JFKvsNixon]

Nothing to do with having an open door immigration policy, advances in tech and medicine more likely.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 14:04 ----------

 

I hear reports of how good it is/was living in the North, more socialist, fewer people perhaps, but that could be another thread.

Why are people in the North more friendly, is it because they are happier, perhaps it is an happier life.

 

What has an open door immigration policy got to do with my statement that living standards have increased?

[loraward]

What does a growing economy do for you?

It does not make YOU richer or happier; its just the size of the economy, it does not affect our poor productivity levels.

 

A growing economy without more houses and infrastructure does put peoples noses out, but having a Tory press does help the facts.

 

How are we doing on the happiness index, David Cameron brought that in, in the last Parliament.

 

What some people don't understanding is that you can grow the economy by increasing crime, debt, disease and population density.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 14:51 ----------

 

A growing economy gives the government the opportunity to cut taxes and/or improve services and/or invest in the country.

 

Or it could be growing as a consequence of government debt and spending.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 14:56 ----------

 

You keep telling yourself all that loraward. In the meantime, I've yet to see anything posted by you apt to validate your opinion over mine.

Ditto

 

A growing economy means tax receipts, and wealth in the system however unequally it may be distributed.

 

Relative to non-growing economies (which is just about all of the EU and a fair few besides), it means a lesser need to hack and slash Gvt budgets and/or raise taxes, some capacity for structural maintenance and investment and more. All of which ultimately impacts everyone.

 

As a working taxpayer, I'm quite glad I don't live in Ireland, Greece or France, 'ta much. In that respect at least, the UK's growing economy does make me richer and happier. And that's before I've looked at increasing workload and profits relative to those of the foreign competition in the past 3 years.

 

 

It rather depends on the reason for the growth.

 

---------- Post added 09-06-2015 at 14:58 ----------

 

I remember growing up in the 1980s.

 

Around half the families on my street had a car, there was only one TV per household and only a few households had a video. Everybody would go around to someones house to watch a video.

 

Only a few households had a phone, sweets/snacks/fizzy pop was treat for special occasions. No one went away for a holiday, home or abroad. No one had central heating/double glazing. People could only afford the hot water tank to be on for a short time each day, and if you ran out of hot water then tough, you had a cold bath.

 

I'd say that working class people are better off today.

 

But are people happier and healthier now they all have cars, a TV in every room and plenty of sweets/snacks/fizzy pop?