EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[foxy lady]

Couldn't agree more. I would sooner we control our own destiny but, if we stay in, what's the point of paying for two lots of bureaucracy? - Especially when one is subservient to the other.

 

It's like employing 2 lots of tax men, plus a load of accountants to write to each about the other.

[L00b]

No. Europe exports more to the UK than we export to them.

That myth has been quite solidly debunked by MobileB in here (like so many times before in similar threads over the ages), so you'll have to forgive me for giving it all the attention it deserves, namely: none.

That is because the UK does not trade in isolation with Europe.

Neither do other EU Member states.

Europe produces things that the UK buys, but that we could buy just as easily from other places.

The reverse is equally true of the things produced by the UK and bought by EU Member states (currently easier due to EU membership of UK), which they could buy just as easily from other places (once the UK is out of the EU, wherein trade would not be as easy as with another EU member state, but just as easy/difficult as with other non-EU member states (US, BRICs, etc.) -my exact point).

But the UK exports to the Commonwealth and the rest of the world.

So do other EU Member states.

The UK is said to have 3000,000 jobs from the trade we have with Europe. Europe has around 5000,000 jobs from the trade with the UK. The value of UK exports to Europe is much lower than the value of Europe's exports here. So who has most to lose from a trade war?

The UK.

 

Relative to the whole of the EU, it makes next to nothing, it's as good with services as the Germans (but they're better at doing deals with the Chinese and the Indians, and the Chinese are practically wed to Brazil and the rest of South America) and to a lesser extent the French, and -as the international trading nation it's always been- it's very good at buying in and upselling around.

 

As regards the oft-bandied UK auto industry...just spare a brief thought about how many European cars you see on US roads (in newscasts, TV series and such), and how many US cars you see on European roads. Now, studies by the Centre for Economic Policy Research (CEPR) suggests that transatlantic auto regulatory divergences are equivalent to a tariff of 26%.

 

I wonder how hard the French and German carmakers would have to push Brussels for half that. I mean, every one with half a coin in the UK will still want a Merc, an Audi or a Beemer (as do the Yanks and Chinese presently)...but I'm really not sure everyone with half a coin in <wherever, continental EU> would not still favour Merc, an Audi or a Beemer over a Nissan or a Jag/Range Rover

I enjoy your attempts at wit. I don't laugh at the wit but I do laugh at your attempts at it.

And reciprocally. I suppose you have to live up to your forum handle after all Edited February 22, 2016 by L00b
typos

[JFKvsNixon]

My husband is taller than me. Does that have a bearing. You seem to have come up with a meanigless statistic, which is undoubtable true, but in reality has no importance whatsoever except to people who have nothing else.

 

So are you trying to claim that you husbands height has the same relevance to our trade with the EU as a statistic on how much the EU trades with the UK? Fair enough, so it seems that you're voting to stay in the EU because you prefer tall men.

 

Well done you!

[MobileB]

Can't give links to the figures but I certainly heard the same thing on TV (think it was "Question Time").

 

Not sure of the figures you are quoting but to give it some context:

 

3,000,000 UK workers reliant on the EU = 9.54% of our workforce.

5,000,000 European workers reliant on the UK = 2.06% of Europe's workforce.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 15:16 ----------

 

So are you trying to claim that you husbands height has the same relevance to our trade with the EU as a statistic on how much the EU trades with the UK? Fair enough, so it seems that you're voting to stay in the EU because you prefer tall men.

 

Well done you!

 

That God the Far East is not our biggest trading partner

[sgtkate]

The 44% is correct. cba to link, but I got them from the ONS. Its not meaningless it just indicates where our biggest market is.

 

I was asking Foxy Lady really about her numbers of people working in industries that import/export between the UK/EU

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 15:32 ----------

 

You should take a look at the question time from last week.

 

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/can-june-sarpong-save-the-day-for-the-in-campaign/

 

Ta muchly. Surprisingly high numbers in the EU. Much higher than I would have thought.

[JFKvsNixon]

Ta muchly. Surprisingly high numbers in the EU. Much higher than I would have thought.

 

It's worth remembering that the jobs in the EU are spred across quite a few counties.

[Zamo]

Not sure of the figures you are quoting but to give it some context:

 

3,000,000 UK workers reliant on the EU = 9.54% of our workforce.

5,000,000 European workers reliant on the UK = 2.06% of Europe's workforce.

 

What context do you think it gives? If all trade between the UK and the EU stopped then it would do more damage to the UK than it would the EU... so what? That is never going to happen so what is the relevance?

[sgtkate]

It's worth remembering that the jobs in the EU are spred across quite a few counties.

 

Yeah but even so. I don't think this alone changes my likely vote of staying in the EU. My stance is that I have to be sure that leaving the EU is the right thing to do to vote for it. If I cannot be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that leaving is better for the UK as a whole then I'll vote for in. I've read most of this thread and I'm still not convinced, but I am more on the fence than I was a few weeks back.

 

Can someone come up with a killer argument with some evidence for a decision one way or the other?

[chalga]

Yeah but even so. I don't think this alone changes my likely vote of staying in the EU. My stance is that I have to be sure that leaving the EU is the right thing to do to vote for it. If I cannot be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that leaving is better for the UK as a whole then I'll vote for in. I've read most of this thread and I'm still not convinced, but I am more on the fence than I was a few weeks back.

 

Can someone come up with a killer argument with some evidence for a decision one way or the other?

 

David Cameron,he's just telling you now.

[unbeliever]

Yeah but even so. I don't think this alone changes my likely vote of staying in the EU. My stance is that I have to be sure that leaving the EU is the right thing to do to vote for it. If I cannot be convinced beyond reasonable doubt that leaving is better for the UK as a whole then I'll vote for in. I've read most of this thread and I'm still not convinced, but I am more on the fence than I was a few weeks back.

 

Can someone come up with a killer argument with some evidence for a decision one way or the other?

 

Not a killer maybe.

But don't think you're voting for the status quo if you vote for it.

A vote to stay in is a vote to be taken on a wild ride to full political union.

 

This is of course my opinion and not the stated position of the UK government. But then they've been saying the same thing for 40 years and Europe gets more and more integrated. I advise you to consider whether you want to be a citizen of a United States of Europe, and assume that if you vote for in, that's where we'll end up.