EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Car Boot]

I will vote to remain in. I'm as corrupt as they come, and hate and fear democracy and accountability. So it makes sense for me to wish my country to belong to an institutionally corrupt, undemocratic and unaccountable organisation that is the EU.

 

I suspect that the majority of those voting to remain in are secretly corrupt with a loathing of democracy and accountability, just like me.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 16:47 ----------

 

People who are considering voting to leave should be aware that if they win then UK citizens will no longer be able to go on holiday to Spain, France, Italy etc. The EU will exclude us from their beaches and their tourist destinations.

 

Vote to remain in and continue to enjoy EU sunshine and sangria!

[MobileB]

Irelevant numbers like you say. But those quoting them are desperate.

 

You see the EU has 22 million unemployed. The UK only 1.8 million. So the EU is 12 times worse off than the UK.

 

If we were forced to stop trade with the EU we would loose 3 million jobs but gain 5 million. The EU would lose 5 million and gain 3 million.

 

So that would leave the EU with 24 million unemployed. The UK would have full employment and would have to allow in selected migrants to fill the vacancies. So who needs who the most?

 

How would we gain five million jobs if we were to leave the EU again? Are you suggesting that all five million jobs in the EU that are reliant on British trade we would miraculously suddenly gain? How would we manage this exactly?

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 16:58 ----------

 

People who are considering voting to leave should be aware that if they win then UK citizens will no longer be able to go on holiday to Spain, France, Italy etc. The EU will exclude us from their beaches and their tourist destinations.

 

Vote to remain in and continue to enjoy EU sunshine and sangria!

 

Whilst I appreciate your attempt at wit, there are currently 400,000 British Citizens registered with the tax authorities in Spain. There is another 600,000 who are estimated to be living in Spain but through rented accommodation and not working (ie retirees) who due to the way Spanish and EU tax laws work have no reason to register with the Spanish Tax authorities (ie they are in rented accommodation). What would be the suggestion to happen to these people (plus the 90,000 who live in Germany and others) should be come out of the EU? Would they need to apply for a visa to remain? Would the EU let them remain?

Edited February 22, 2016 by MobileB

[sutty27]

Not sure of the figures you are quoting but to give it some context:

3,000,000 UK workers reliant on the EU = 9.54% of our workforce.

5,000,000 European workers reliant on the UK = 2.06% of Europe's workforce.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 15:16 ----------

 

 

That God the Far East is not our biggest trading partner

 

Who are the workers and in which country were they born because that figure is less people than have moved here in the last ten years. I don't see the point in creating UK based jobs and then employing migrants to do them because it causes all sorts of problems.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 16:59 ----------

 

No. Europe exports more to the UK than we export to them.

 

You are correct despite and that is the reason they will trade with us.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 17:00 ----------

 

What percentage of Europe's overall trade is with the UK, and what percentage of the UK' overall s trade is with the EU countries? Wouldn't that information better help us conclude the importance of trade?

 

The percentage isn't relevant.

 

---------- Post added 22-02-2016 at 17:04 ----------

 

What context do you think it gives? If all trade between the UK and the EU stopped then it would do more damage to the UK than it would the EU... so what? That is never going to happen so what is the relevance?

 

I don't think it would because we would be free to trade with whom ever we wished and they would be bogged down by reams of bureaucracy.

[tzijlstra]

Oh dear...

 

We'd be a piece of a major player in the EU.

 

Prior to the EU, the UK had seats on the WTO and a wide variety of other important international bodies. We are, after all, the 5th largest economy in the world. We have in fact lost a great deal of influence by being subsumed into the EU. We could have that influence back.

 

162 nations have a seat on the WTO, including the UK and the EU (that makes it 2 votes against 1). The UK also is a security council member (The EU isn't) and is a key-member of the NATO (The EU isn't). The UK has lost no influence, it has gained influence. By using one voice at the WTO the voice of the UK is amplified by being part of the EU.

 

I remind you that less that half our trade is with the EU. By being in we have more influence and weight within the EU, perhaps, but we've lost so much influence outside.

I've just debunked that, but let's be clear - Empire is over. The Commonwealth still exists and that'll have to do. Oh wait, that still exists DESPITE the EU?

 

If you're in favour of full European integration, that's perfectly legitimate.

I'm not. And only a small minority of the UK people are.

funny, because that is not on the cards at all. For someone who accuses others of scare-mongering on economics a lot, you seem to be using scare mongering tactics a lot. Except that yours are pretty easy to throw out as opposed to the potential impact of Brexit on the countries economic status.

I get upset that we're told that a vote for in is the 'safe' option for the status quo. But we know from its history that it integrates continuously so we're being deceived.

All decisions made in the EU are ratified by the European Parliament, and are proposed unanimously by the European Council (of which the UK is a significant member).

 

The 'reform deal' Cameron wanted took ages to negotiate for a reason. All members count and all voices are heard in this. Oddly enough, that is the result of being a democracy, the one thing you keep rubbishing.

 

What you are really propagating is that the UK loses its seat on the European Council, whilst still being subject to reform that has been proposed by that very council. The major difference this time? The UK has no veto, no say at all, it just has to sit up and pay notice each time a trade-related issue comes to the fore.

I know we go over this all the time and you refuse to see what that means, but you are not the only one reading this reply so I will give an example:

 

London is a global financial centre. The UK has managed to keep the City clear from Eurozone measures introduced to all Eurozone banks, transaction tax, more transparency, more accountability etc. etc. As soon as the UK leaves the EU the EU will bring in those taxes and rules on all financial transactions between the EU and the UK. It might not directly be law in the UK, but it will affect the City. That isn't anything to do with Free Trade by the way, that is to do with the changing status of the UK in relation to the EU. Cameron has been keeping the City out of the impact-zone by adding clauses etc. Those clauses are not valid for a non-member and will disappear like snow for the sun.

[sutty27]

How would we gain five million jobs if we were to leave the EU again? Are you suggesting that all five million jobs in the EU that are reliant on British trade we would miraculously suddenly gain? How would we manage this exactly?

 

If the EU refuse to trade with the UK, UK business would soon fill the void by producing some of the stuff we buy from the EU, this would create jobs for British workers, so any jobs that are lost would most definitely be regained many times over.

[JFKvsNixon]

If the EU refuse to trade with the UK, UK business would soon fill the void by producing some of the stuff we buy from the EU, this would create jobs for British workers, so any jobs that are lost would most definitely be regained many times over.

 

Explain how the - regained many times over works?

[sutty27]

Explain how the - regained many times over works?

 

If 5 million people are employed across the EU because they trade with the UK and only 3 million people are employed in the UK because we trade with the EU. If we both stop trading with each other they will loose 5 million jobs but still want the stuff we sell to them so they will have to buy it from somewhere else or employ 3 million jobs to produce it themselves.

We will still want the stuff we buy off them so we will either buy it from someone else or produce it our selves and to do that will take 5 million employees. But that won't happen because trade will continue on mutually agreeable terms.

[tzijlstra]

If 5 million people are employed across the EU because they trade with the UK and only 3 million people are employed in the UK because we trade with the EU. If we both stop trading with each other they will loose 5 million jobs but still want the stuff we sell to them so they will have to buy it from somewhere else or employ 3 million jobs to produce it themselves.

We will still want the stuff we buy off them so we will either buy it from someone else or produce it our selves and to do that will take 5 million employees. But that won't happen because trade will continue on mutually agreeable terms.

 

So why bring it up?

[JFKvsNixon]

If 5 million people are employed across the EU because they trade with the UK and only 3 million people are employed in the UK because we trade with the EU. If we both stop trading with each other they will loose 5 million jobs but still want the stuff we sell to them so they will have to buy it from somewhere else or employ 3 million jobs to produce it themselves.

We will still want the stuff we buy off them so we will either buy it from someone else or produce it our selves and to do that will take 5 million employees. But that won't happen because trade will continue on mutually agreeable terms.

 

Do you really think it is that simple?

[tinfoilhat]

I agree the ultimate outcome after Brexit entirely depends on the choices made during the long negotiation period that will follow. Realistically it could be 2025 before everything is done and dusted anyway.

 

But going back to the democracy thing, it is usual for a campaign to have some kind of manifesto, to make pledges etc... The leave campaign seems to have neglected that bit, so far.

 

And no I'm not arguing against democracy. Far from it.

 

But what you're asking is totally and utterly impossible. The Labour Party can't agree on individual policies, how can the people as far apart on the political spectrum as Galloway and BoJo (both powerless by the way to enact it if they do win btw) going to have a policy.

 

This isn't as dramatic as the scots leaving and they didn't even have a currency lined up - that went down the wire. It's democracy in action - it doesn't need to make sense.